Understanding 2 Peter 3:5

[Van]

2 Peter 3:5 NASB
For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and earth was formed out of water and by water,

Our first question is just who are the "they" that claim something wrong? It is the "mocker" following their own fleshly desires, rather than submitting to God.

Second, how does truth "escape" the mockers notice? One school of thought is that they are blind to the truth, the other school thinks they are willfully ignorant of the truth, meaning they know what scripture proclaims, but ignore it.

The third and last question concerns "water." In this usage "water" refers to the unknown primary element of creation. And not just the static unknown material, but also its dynamic effect, such as rain or a deluge shaping the environment

Based on these observations, what conclusions might we draw?

False teachers, spreading false doctrine do so out of blindness or willful animosity to truth.

Second, the view that the heavens and earth have always existed and will always exist is false according to scripture.

Third, by the Logos of God, the heavens existed long ago, then the earth was formed from unknown material by unknown forces of the Logos of God.

 

[percho]

From the OP

Third, by the Logos of God, the heavens existed long ago, then the earth was formed from unknown material by unknown forces of the Logos of God.

Where is the word, then, found in any translation?

Methinks Peter is saying the word of God states that at some point in creation, the heavens were of old and the earth in the water and out of the water were standing, together.

 

[Van]

From the OP

Third, by the Logos of God, the heavens existed long ago, then the earth was formed from unknown material by unknown forces of the Logos of God.

Where is the word, then, found in any translation?

Methinks Peter is saying the word of God states that at some point in creation, the heavens were of old and the earth in the water and out of the water were standing, together.

Dear Sir, the heavens were created on "day two" and the earth formed on "day three."

 

[Van]

2 Peter and Jude parallel each other, both warning early believers about false teachers. Some peddle God's word on the basis of greed, either monetary or in social status.

Here is a similar verse:
Jude 1:10 NASB
But these people disparage all the things that they do not understand; and all the things that they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.

So false teachers speak of thing they really do not understand as if they had an understanding. And they "disparage" things they know to be true by basic reasoning, and because they make truth their adversary, they are ultimately destroyed by reality.

 

[Charlie24]

Dear Sir, the heavens were created on "day two" and the earth formed on "day three."

The argument, as some believe, including me, is that in Gen. 1, God created everything that was created billions of years ago.

Beginning in vs. 2, the earth is found void, and without form. This is believed by many not to be the way the Lord created the earth.

The void, and without form came from spiritual warfare from Satan's rebellion against God with the angels that chose to follow him.

Beginning in vs. 3, God began a repair of the damage, and this is when he created man to take care of the earth.

It is believed that earth belonged to Satan in the unknown past and after his rebellion, God took it from him and gave it to man.

The reason Satan was in the Garden to begin taking back what was originally his.

 

[Van]

The argument, as some believe, including me, is that in Gen. 1, God created everything that was created billions of years ago.

Beginning in vs. 2, the earth is found void, and without form. This is believed by many not to be the way the Lord created the earth.

The void, and without form came from spiritual warfare from Satan's rebellion against God with the angels that chose to follow him.

Beginning in vs. 3, God began a repair of the damage, and this is when he created man to take care of the earth.

It is believed that earth belonged to Satan in the unknown past and after his rebellion, God took it from him and gave it to man.

The reason Satan was in the Garden to begin taking back what was originally his.

Yes, many speculative theories exist concerning the first week of Genesis. "Recreation" rather than Creation is just one of them.

My view, just as speculative as the others, is that the phrase, "void and without form" indicates the planet had not been formed, and the place where the earth would be formed was empty, i.e. void.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, many speculative theories exist concerning the first week of Genesis. "Recreation" rather than Creation is just one of them.

My view, just as speculative as the others, is that the phrase, "void and without form" indicates the planet had not been formed, and the place where the earth would be formed was empty, i.e. void.

Yes, that's one view, and difficult for any view to be proven.

In my opinion, the Gap Theory is the most accurate.

But that is my opinion.

 

[percho]

Dear Sir, the heavens were created on "day two" and the earth formed on "day three."

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 1

When did that take place?

V 2
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
[fn] Words in italic type have been added for clarity. They are not found in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.

From that in bold and v's 6,7 does it appear, in V 2 that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together

 

[percho]

The argument, as some believe, including me, is that in Gen. 1, God created everything that was created billions of years ago.

Beginning in vs. 2, the earth is found void, and without form. This is believed by many not to be the way the Lord created the earth.

The void, and without form came from spiritual warfare from Satan's rebellion against God with the angels that chose to follow him.

Beginning in vs. 3, God began a repair of the damage, and this is when he created man to take care of the earth.

It is believed that earth belonged to Satan in the unknown past and after his rebellion, God took it from him and gave it to man.

The reason Satan was in the Garden to begin taking back what was originally his.

Excellent, Yet I would say beginning with God speaking, "out of darkness light to shine," God put forth His foreordained plan to destroy the devil and the works of the devil.

Just some thought verses 1 John 3:8 Rom 4:14 Heb 2:14

What is man? Why was man created? What about Jesus born of woman, the Son of Man, the Son of God, how was He going to come to be.
Matt 1:18

 

[Charlie24]

Excellent, Yet I would say beginning with God speaking, "out of darkness light to shine," God put forth His foreordained plan to destroy the devil and the works of the devil.

Just some thought verses 1 John 3:8 Rom 4:14 Heb 2:14

What is man? Why was man created? What about Jesus born of woman, the Son of Man, the Son of God, how was He going to come to be.
Matt 1:18

Who could argue with your presented verses of thought, you're exactly right!

 

[percho]

Before the foundation of the κόσμου [kosmos, world, system as translated by scripture4all implying order, configuration as translated by Westcott and Hort implying order in order for the Son of God to be manifested as the Son of Man to destroy the devil and his works would it require the creation of man in the image of his creator yet subject to, the death, brought fourth by the sin?

Did the devil and his works need to be destroyed before man was created?

 

[percho]

Considering the implication of the word, κόσμου [ world, system, configuration] what light does it shine on Verse 6 of 2 Peter

through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;


Was there an ordered world, system, configuration before Adam and or the foundation of this present world?

 

[Charlie24]

Considering the implication of the word, κόσμου [ world, system, configuration] what light does it shine on Verse 6 of 2 Peter

through which the then world, by water having been deluged, was destroyed;


Was there an ordered world, system, configuration before Adam and or the foundation of this present world?

The gap theory agrees with science that the world is billions of years old.

2 Peter 3:6, "whereby the world that then was" is referring to before Adam, "being overflowed with water" isn't referring to Noah's flood, but a flood that took place during the rebellion of Satan.

"Perished" is referring to all life perishing on earth when this rebellion took place. Whatever that life was. I think it was the dinosaurs and pre-historic animals that roamed the earth in those days, the bones of which the scientists are finding.

 

[Charlie24]

The gap theory agrees with science that the world is billions of years old.

2 Peter 3:6, "whereby the world that then was" is referring to before Adam, "being overflowed with water" isn't referring to Noah's flood, but a flood that took place during the rebellion of Satan.

"Perished" is referring to all life perishing on earth when this rebellion took place. Whatever that life was. I think it was the dinosaurs and pre-historic animals that roamed the earth in those days, the bones of which the scientists are finding.

Scientists claim these bones are millions of years old, I believe they very well may be correct.

 

[Charlie24]

Scientists claim these bones are millions of years old, I believe they very well may be correct.

The controversy with science and the Bible comes with the science claiming human remains from millions of years ago.

The origin of Adam can be traced in the Scripture to 6,000 years ago, so this claim of human bones from millions of years ago throws a new perspective on man.

 

[Deacon]

In the past decades there have been many speculative books on Theological Anthropology.
IMO, the most exciting book recently was written by an evolutionary geneticist, S. Joshua Swamidass, "The Genealogical Adam & Eve" (2019).

He writes that "Genetics, archaeology, anthropology, theology, philosophy, history, art, and literature intersect around the question of Adam and Eve, in a dynamic exchange between worlds".

He opened many exciting possibilities, many of which have been explored by other authors interacting with his observations.

The debate revolves around defining exactly what is a human.
"Human" is a term with a great variety of meanings.

Rob

 

[Van]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Verse 1

When did that take place?

V 2
The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[fn] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
[fn] Words in italic type have been added for clarity. They are not found in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.

From that in bold and v's 6,7 does it appear, in V 2 that the heavens were of old, and the earth out of water and through water standing together

Sir, you ask questions but seem unable to acknowledge answers.

Here is what I said: "the heavens existed long ago, then the earth was formed from unknown material by unknown forces of the Logos of God.

You questioned the "then" and I supplied the answer, day three comes after day two. But you did not acknowledge the answer, but instead just asked another question.

The only answer is the heavens and the earth were created before any human was created, so we do not know "how or when (in human terms) God initially created the heavens and the earth. I have told you before that according to Job 38, humans do not know the specifics, only that God did it.

 

[Van]

In the past decades there have been many speculative books on Theological Anthropology.
IMO, the most exciting book recently was written by an evolutionary geneticist, S. Joshua Swamidass, "The Genealogical Adam & Eve" (2019).

He writes that "Genetics, archaeology, anthropology, theology, philosophy, history, art, and literature intersect around the question of Adam and Eve, in a dynamic exchange between worlds".

He opened many exciting possibilities, many of which have been explored by other authors interacting with his observations.

The debate revolves around defining exactly what is a human.
"Human" is a term with a great variety of meanings.

Rob

According to scripture, there were no humans before God created Adam less than 7000 years ago. No primate would have existed capable of abstract thought, such as painting pictures on cave walls. I do not see an intersection, but an abyss.

 

[Van]

False teachers speculate about scripture, and claim to read between the lines, adding their opinion to scripture as if it reflected the inspired message. Scripture lists the generations from Adam to Jesus, and apparently provides the durations of the early generations listed. From history we know the approximate average duration of the last generations, from David to Jesus. Even if we use the average of the longer early generations for the missing middle generations, we still end up with Adam being created less than 7000 years ago.

The dating by so called science of those paintings, say about 12,000 years ago, may be in error, due to the bias of evolutionary theory.

 

[Van]

Are we willing to submit to God's information alone, or must we grab on to the human speculations concerning what is not spelled out. Do we fuel the market for false teachings? Adam being created less than 7000 years ago is a theory based on an interpretation of scripture, but cannot be taught as doctrine because scripture says we do not know.