• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Understanding 2 Thessalonians 2:13

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
2 Thessalonians 2:13 is a compound sentence, with subjects, verbs, direct and indirect objects.

We should always give thanks to God for you as beloved by the Lord.
Subject, =We; Verb = should give thanks, direct object = God; indirect object for you the beloved.
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ!
Why?
Because God has chosen you.
Subject = God; Verb = has chosen; direct object = you.

The remaining phrases are indirect objects describing aspects of the action upon the recipient.

When was the action of choosing performed? From the beginning of the New Covenant
What was the purpose of the action? For salvation

Why does "from the beginning" refer to "from the beginning of the New Covenant," and NOT from the beginning of creation? Answer, no one was chosen by being spiritually transferred into Christ before Christ died. Recall Abraham's bosom, and Jesus declaring no one, not one OT saint, had gone up to Heaven before He came to earth.

What were the instrumental factors? Through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Election was accomplished by transferring the person from the realm of darkness into Christ.
The basis of the choice was God crediting the faith of the individual as righteousness.

Thus we were NOT saved because of our faith, our faith only allowed God to credit it or not. Our faith did not deserve salvation or merit salvation, the accreditation was a act of mercy and grace. Salvation does NOT depend upon the person who wills, but upon God who has mercy.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches certain beliefs from the dark ages are false.

First, rather than Unconditional Election, scripture teaches we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election.

Next, to be individually chosen through faith in the truth means we had come to faith BEFORE we were chosen, therefore during our physical lifetime after we had heard and learned from the Father, and NOT before we were created.

But what about Ephesians 1:4 which says we were chosen before the foundation of the world? Since as individuals we were "drawn" by the Father before we came to Christ, we were not chosen before we were drawn. Because we once were "not a people" we were not chosen to be a people before we lived as not a people. Because once we had not "received mercy" we were not individually chosen before we lived having not received mercy. Because once we were children of wrath, we were not yet the chosen children of God, precluding being individually chosen before creation.

So just how were we chosen before the foundation of the world? Corporately! When God chose individually "Logos" to be His "Lamb of God," His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem. His gracious choice of our Redeemer before creation therefore granted us who are now in Christ grace from all eternity. Those who would be redeemed were to have a common trait, believers whose faith God would credit as righteousness.






Report
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
2Th 2:10 CSB
and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved.

Those chosen for salvation were chosen through or on the basis of their love of the truth, whereas those not chosen did not accept the love of the truth, the love of Christ, dying for them while they were yet sinners.

Everyone believing in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
2Th 2:10 CSB
and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved.

Those chosen for salvation were chosen through or on the basis of their love of the truth, whereas those not chosen did not accept the love of the truth, the love of Christ, dying for them while they were yet sinners.

Everyone believing in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.
2 Thess 2:10-12 happens to the non elect
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No its the truth, Sanctification of the Spirit precedes the belief of the truth/faith
Idiotic absurdity, a total rewrite of the text. But will any poster other than myself stand up for God's word? Wait and see...

To be chosen through or on the basis of faith requires that the person comes to faith before being chosen. Thus those who do not accept the love of truth remain non-elect.
 

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
The plain reading of the text describes our conditional election for salvation.
God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved
1] by the sanctification of the Spirit
and
2] through faith in the truth
to which
3] He called you by our {Paul's} gospel,
for
4] the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

God’s salvation comes “through the sanctification by the Spirit.” Yet, sanctification by the Holy Spirit is itself a post-conversion, faith induced experience. For the scriptures know nothing of a sanctified unbeliever. Again we see that God’s election to salvation is conditional rather than unconditional.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
right there before your eyes
Idiotic absurdity, a total rewrite of the text. But will any poster other than myself stand up for God's word? Wait and see...

To be chosen through or on the basis of faith requires that the person comes to faith before being chosen. Thus those who do not accept the love of truth remain non-elect.

This behavior is par for the course will all the Calvinists that post on this board. They rewrite 2 Thessalonians 2:13 so it does not say individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Its right there b4 your eyes, the Spirits work of sanctification is needed b4 belief of the truth, then we experience salvation from error and ignorance, and acknowledge the truth.
Idiotic absurdity, a total rewrite of the text. But will any poster other than myself stand up for God's word? Wait and see...
To be chosen through or on the basis of faith requires that the person comes to faith before being chosen. Thus those who do not accept the love of truth remain non-elect.

This behavior is par for the course will all the Calvinists that post on this board. They rewrite 2 Thessalonians 2:13 so it does not say individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.

As you can see, not one poster believes 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Not one...
 

percho

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I ask for as I have said many times, I know no Greek.

Because πίστει is dative should not the understanding be, to or unto faith and or, to or unto belief, of truth?

In other words it becomes a work of the Spirit?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I ask for as I have said many times, I know no Greek.

Because πίστει is dative should not the understanding be, to or unto faith and or, to or unto belief, of truth?

In other words it becomes a work of the Spirit?
A sound approach to understanding how the Greek "noun dative" is used is to see how it is used in the NASB, which is one of the best translation of the Greek grammar. Both "sanctification" and "faith" are in the dative, indicating they are indirect objects of the verb chosen, describing an aspect of the verb's action upon the recipient. As the OP explained, "sanctification by the Spirit" describes the means by which we were chosen, we were set apart in Christ. And "faith in the truth" describes the basis for God choosing those individuals.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As you can see, not one poster believes 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. Not one...
As everyone but you can see, all the posters believe that individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. That's what the Bible says. The question at issue is whether the choosing comes before the faith or vice versa. We are helped here by Acts 13:48. 'And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.'
Or we could try Acts 2:47. 'And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.' Who added these people to the church? The Lord did. Did the people add themselves to the church? No, although they may have thought they did.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Believing the Truth is a salvation experience wrought in the elect by the Spirit
Note once again this poster turns the noun, salvation into a verb, experiencing salvation. This is all they have folk, rewrite after rewrite to alter God's word according the man-made doctrine from the dark ages.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
"sanctification by the Spirit" describes the means by which we were chosen,
False, Sanctification by the Spirit describes the means the beloved chosen ones from the beginning, believe the Truth. Belief of the truth here is the Salvation contemplated. This is in opposition to the non elect in Vs 10-12
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As everyone but you can see, all the posters believe that individuals are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. That's what the Bible says. The question at issue is whether the choosing comes before the faith or vice versa. We are helped here by Acts 13:48. 'And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.'
Or we could try Acts 2:47. 'And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.' Who added these people to the church? The Lord did. Did the people add themselves to the church? No, although they may have thought they did.
As anyone can see, the preposition "en" is used to indicate instrumentality, the means of or the basis of the verbs action of choosing the individual for salvation.

The posts of each and every Calvinist try to rewrite the text.
 
Top