Understanding 2 Thessalonians 2:13

[Brightfame52]

What a waste, I cite God's word

No you didnt, you cited the king van version

 

[Brightfame52]

. Van has made it up entirely out of his own imagination.

Yep

 

[Brightfame52]

The sanctification of the Spirit which produces belief in the truth or faith, is also the result of the sanctifying death of Christ Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The word sanctified here is in the perfect tense passive voice and it means: hagiazō :

1. to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2. to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
   1. consecrate things to God
   2. dedicate people to God
3. to purify
   1. to cleanse externally
   2. to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
   3. to purify internally by renewing of the soul

All the elect for whom Christ died have been legally freed from the guilt of their sin, and will experience a purification internally, or a spiritual renewal as here Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And its this sanctifying renewal of the Spirit, based upon the merits of Christ sanctifying death, that the elect believe the Truth as here 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The election of the Father, the Death of the Son secured the sanctifying work of the Spirit unto belief of the Truth/faith.

We must Thank the Triune God for all of this !

 

[Van]

Yet another 'against the person' post which is a fallacious argument.

Did I say that @Van said the words "the New Covenant" appear in the context? Nope, so the implication that I did is another false clain by Van. What I said was that the words 'New Covenant' appear nowhere in 1 or 2 Thessalonians and so for Van to write them in is fallacious and misleading.

Why does "from the beginning" not refer to 'from the beginning of the New Covenant'? Because there is not the remotest suggestion in the text that Paul meant that meaning. Van has made it up entirely out of his own imagination. Abraham's bosom has nothing to do with anything in 2 Thessalonians, and I explained the meaning of John 3:13 in post #149.

Did Van acknowledge the reasoning for the meaning of "from the beginning" -- Namely that it actually means "from the beginning" and Van has no business adding to the word of God in a vain attempt to bolster his faulty theology? Nope. This is how he defends his false doctrines, with added words, smokescreen and diversion via false claims and false charges.

LOL, now this poster misrepresents not only Scripture, my interpretation, but his own statement. Good Grief.

Next, this poster does not address the reason why from the beginning refers to from the beginning of the New Covenant. He says I made it up, but not say why people could have chosen by being set apart in Christ, before Christ died.

 

[Brightfame52]

He says I made it up,

You did since its not in the text duh

 

[Van]

No you didnt, you cited the king van version

Did I do any such thing? Nope. Why are some posters allowed to systemically denigrate those who hold differing views without a shred of truth?

You did since its not in the text duh

Here this poster claims the context is not king, but Calvinist misinterpretation is king. Calvinism is found no where in the text or the context.

No one was set apart in Christ where they would be made perfect until after Christ died. Hebrews 11:39-40. That is in the literal text of scripture. Therefore no one was set apart in Christ before Christ died, thus no one was individually chosen per the 2 Thessalonians 2:13 means, before Christ died. That is the context. This is obvious truth. Where are people made perfect? The Calvinists do not even know. So their regurgitation of Calvinist doctrine seems based on unstudied ignorance of the topic.

Where are people made perfect? In Christ, after being spiritually transferred into Christ.

So no one was chosen by being set apart in Christ until after Christ died. Yes people were chosen for salvation before Christ died, but they were set apart in Abraham's bosom under the Old Covenant. This is quite simple folks, and no believer of God's word should reject its obvious meaning.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did I do any such thing? Nope.

Lol dude you made all that junk up, and quite blatantly

Where are people made perfect? In Christ, after being spiritually transferred into Christ.

At His death for them Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering [His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The elect are legally sanctified and perfected forever @ the death/offering of Christ

They also were sanctifed by Father and preserved in Jesus Christ b4 they were ever born Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

They were preserved in Jesus b4 they were born and called in time

 

[Van]

Lol dude you made all that junk up, and quite blatantly
At His death for them Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering [His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The elect are legally sanctified and perfected forever @ the death/offering of Christ
They also were sanctifed by Father and preserved in Jesus Christ b4 they were ever born Jude 1:1
1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
They were preserved in Jesus b4 they were born and called in time

More fiction, more posting non-germane verbiage as if pertinent.

Who has Christ perfected? Those sanctified, referring to those God chooses to set apart in Christ based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

And folks, note the term "Legally Sanctified" a made up phrase. Ask yourselves just what does this Calvinist mean? The double whammy, sanctified but not yet sanctified. Or they were set apart before they were set apart. Folks, just another idiotic absurdity used in the defense of false doctrine.

 

[Brightfame52]

More fiction,

Vanology is the fiction

 

[Brightfame52]

Who has Christ perfected? Those sanctified,

Them He died for, by one offering Heb 10:10,14

 

[Van]

I see the Calvinist poster has flamed out, unable to even comprehend when and where people are made perfect.

So they offer unfounded disparagement and non-germane verbiage.

 

[Van]

Here is a study based on grammar and context of 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 is a compound sentence, with subjects, verbs, direct and indirect objects.

We should always give thanks to God for you as beloved by the Lord.
Subject, =We; Verb = should give thanks, direct object = God; indirect object for you the beloved.
We should give thanks to God for you as our siblings in Christ!
Why?
Because God has chosen you.
Subject = God; Verb = has chosen; direct object = you.

The remaining phrases are indirect objects describing aspects of the action upon the recipient.

When was the action of choosing performed? From the beginning of the New Covenant. No one was set apart into Christ's spiritual body before Christ died on the cross.
What was the purpose of the choice? For salvation

Why does "from the beginning" refer to "from the beginning of the New Covenant," and NOT from the beginning of creation? Answer, no one was chosen by being spiritually transferred into Christ before Christ died. Recall Abraham's bosom, and Jesus declaring no one, not one OT saint, had gone up to Heaven before He came to earth.

What were the instrumental factors? Through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Election was accomplished by transferring the person from the realm of darkness into Christ.
The basis of the choice was God crediting the faith of the individual as righteousness.

Thus we were NOT saved because of our faith, our faith only allowed God to credit it or not. Our faith did not deserve salvation or merit salvation, the accreditation was a act of mercy and grace. Salvation does NOT depend upon the person who wills, but upon God who has mercy. Romans 9:16

Not to put too fine a point on it, but 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches certain beliefs from the dark ages are false.

First, rather than Unconditional Election, scripture teaches we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election.

Next, to be individually chosen through faith in the truth means we had come to faith BEFORE we were chosen, therefore during our physical lifetime after we had heard and learned from the Father, and NOT before we were created.

But what about Ephesians 1:4 which says we were chosen before the foundation of the world? Since as individuals we were "drawn" by the Father before we came to Christ, we were not chosen before we were drawn. Because we once were "not a people" we were not chosen to be a people before we lived as not a people. Because once we had not "received mercy" we were not individually chosen before we lived having not received mercy. Because once we were children of wrath, we were not yet the chosen children of God, precluding being individually chosen before creation.

So just how were we chosen before the foundation of the world? Corporately! When God chose individually "Logos" to be His "Lamb of God," His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He chose corporately all those His Redeemer would redeem. His gracious choice of our Redeemer before creation therefore granted us who are now in Christ grace from all eternity. Those who would be redeemed were to have a common trait, believers whose faith God would credit as righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

I see the Calvinist poster has flamed out, unable to even comprehend when and where people are made perfect.

At the death of Christ Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[Brightfame52]

When was the action of choosing performed? From the beginning of the New Covenant.

From the beginning Gen 1:1 Eph 1:4

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning - this thread will be closed no sooner than 1130 GMT 530 am EST 230 am EST

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It may be helpful to compare 2 Thes. 2:13 with 2 Tim. 1:9. '[God] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.'
The salvation and the calling come in time, but His purpose determined that we should receive grace even before time began. The 'us' who were called and saved in our own lifetimes are the same 'us' to whom God purposed undeserved favour and mercy even before the very beginning of time.

 

[Van]

It may be helpful to compare 2 Thes. 2:13 with 2 Tim. 1:9. '[God] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.'
The salvation and the calling come in time, but His purpose determined that we should receive grace even before time began. The 'us' who were called and saved in our own lifetimes are the same 'us' to whom God purposed undeserved favour and mercy even before the very beginning of time.

When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, or before the creation of fallen humanity, God also chose corporately those His Redeemer might redeem, thus we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Therefore, our salvation and holy calling as ambassadors of Christ was according to God's purpose and grace, His Redemption plan, which was established before time began.

 

[Van]

Who are the "beloved by the Lord?" Those individually chosen during their physical lifetime and placed within Christ spiritually, becoming a "people for His own possession." These are the people often referred to as "beloved." See 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

The "beloved" are siblings of Christ because as a born anew child of God, we have the same Father. See Hebrews 2:11.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 Interpretive Translation

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But we should always give thanks to God for you, siblings, beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood, for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit, setting the individual apart in Christ, and on the basis of their faith in the truth as credited by God as righteousness.​

 

[Brightfame52]

When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, or before the creation of fallen humanity, God also chose corporately those His Redeemer might redeem, thus we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Therefore, our salvation and holy calling as ambassadors of Christ was according to God's purpose and grace, His Redemption plan, which was established before time began.

More of you writing your own Bible

 

[Van]

More of you writing your own Bible

You Sir are the one advocating the rewrite. No one EVER seeks after God, is Calvinism's rewrite.

The natural man cannot understand ANY OF the things of the Spirit of God, is Calvinism's rewrite.

God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and NOT through faith in the truth, is Calvinism's rewrite.

I presented my interpretation of 2 Timothy 1:9, which was ignored, but diversionary disparagement ensued. Here again is how to understand the verse:

When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, or before the creation of fallen humanity, God also chose corporately those His Redeemer might redeem, thus we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Therefore, our salvation and holy calling as ambassadors of Christ was according to God's purpose and grace, His Redemption plan, which was established before time began.