Understanding Genesis 1&2

[Amy.G]

You have listed neither denomination, nor your home church, (both of which are required fields) and somehow you still became a registered member. So, please identify yourself and tell us what denomination are you from? What church do you belong to? Or do you have some fear and embarassment about it?

Yes please 4pillars, I have been wondering this myself.

 

[4Pillars]

The speculation and implication that Adam died Spiritually after the “original sin” would mean, the Invisible God Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, were in ERROR in creating Adam in the image and likeness Of God who is Spirit -- to begin with -- but only to be taken away from their hands by the old serpent. Could this be the likeness of God!!! Of course not!!! Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this truth -- after they have been told.

Here's why:

There are THREE (numeric) that bear records in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three (numeric) are one (unity). 1John 5:7 In order for one to die Spiritually, one must first be Born Spiritually.

"Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a Spiritual Being. This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

However, when Jesus formed of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul Gen. 2:7 – it was not spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made from his ribs nor included the agreement of "US"on that particular time. Therefore, it would not harmonized or reconciled to Gen. 1:26 nor John 14:16-17.

This is confirmed in Paul’sa epistle, 1Corinthians 15:45-46

1 CORINTHIANS 15
v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was physically FORMED/MADE on the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:7) and was Created spiritually in their image and likeness - together with Eve - only on this present 6th Day (Gen.5:1-2; 1:27). -- this morning God's time.

Surely, Cain who was a murderer from the beginning and a liar could not have been an image or likeness of God. He was just a natural living soul without the Spirit of God. As I have stated before, IN THE DAY Adam & Eve and HIS GENERATIONS were created in image and likeness God -- WHO IS A SPIRIT WITHOUT FLESH AND BONE -- Cain had already killed Abel.

Therefore, NOT everybody is created in the image and likeness of God, unless one is born again in the spirit of Christ -- from their natural birth - by calling upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 4:26)

Any objection please cite your Biblical support - not your traditional view which is not supported by the Scipture. Thanks...


God Bless

 

[4Pillars]

Yes please 4pillars, I have been wondering this myself.

I am a Born Again Christian and belong to the Body of Christ -- the Pillars and Ground of Truth.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The speculation and implication that Adam died Spiritually after the “original sin” would mean, the Invisible God Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, were in ERROR in creating Adam in the image and likeness Of God who is Spirit -- to begin with -- but only to be taken away from their hands by the old serpent. Could this be the likeness of God!!! Of course not!!! Only willingly ignorant always stumble to this truth -- after they have been told.

Here's why:

There are THREE (numeric) that bear records in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three (numeric) are one (unity). 1John 5:7 In order for one to die Spiritually, one must first be Born Spiritually.

"Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a Spiritual Being. This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

However, when Jesus formed of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul Gen. 2:7 – it was not spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made from his ribs nor included the agreement of "US"on that particular time. Therefore, it would not harmonized or reconciled to Gen. 1:26 nor John 14:16-17.

This is confirmed in Paul’sa epistle, 1Corinthians 15:45-46

1 CORINTHIANS 15
v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was physically FORMED/MADE on the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:7) and was Created spiritually in their image and likeness - together with Eve - only on this present 6th Day (Gen.5:1-2; 1:27). -- this morning God's time.

Surely, Cain who was a murderer from the beginning and a liar could not have been an image or likeness of God. He was just a natural living soul without the Spirit of God. As I have stated before, IN THE DAY Adam & Eve and HIS GENERATIONS were created in image and likeness God -- WHO IS A SPIRIT WITHOUT FLESH AND BONE -- Cain had already killed Abel.

Therefore, NOT everybody is created in the image and likeness of God, unless one is born again in the spirit of Christ -- from their natural birth - by calling upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 4:26)

Any objection please cite your Biblical support - not your traditional view which is not supported by the Scipture. Thanks...


God Bless

GE:
How can you call this, "Re; Understanding Genesis 1-2"? To me you're simply confusing everything, making it totally ununderstandable!

 

[BobRyan]

There are THREE (numeric) that bear records in Heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three (numeric) are one (unity). 1John 5:7 In order for one to die Spiritually, one must first be Born Spiritually.

"Let US create man in our image after our likeness" requires that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost operate in unity or agreement to make one a Spiritual Being. This is confirmed by John 14:16-17 which shows that the agreement of "US" is necessary for a Spiritual Birth.

However, when Jesus formed of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a natural living soul Gen. 2:7 – it was not spiritual birth, since, Eve was not yet made from his ribs nor included the agreement of "US"on that particular time. Therefore, it would not harmonized or reconciled to Gen. 1:26 nor John 14:16-17.

This is confirmed in Paul’sa epistle, 1Corinthians 15:45-46

A. - That is total nonsense.

B - it is not confirmed anywhere in all of scripture - nor even suggested.

Adam and Eve were BOTH in FULL and complete fellowship with God AT THEIR CREATION - no barrier - no gap - no dividing wall. They walked and talked with God in full and complete harmony with their literal maker. Adam is called "the son of God" by the NT writers - from his very first moment of existence.

1 CORINTHIANS 15
v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit

Christ is a "life GIVING spirit" for He said "AS the Father HAS LIFE IN Himself so He has given the Son to have LIFE IN Himself".

Christ said "I AM the WAY the Truth and the LIFE".

In HIM we HAVE life.

That is not true of ADAM nor any person born-again or not in this world today.

Mixing up the Bible as you are doing yields a great deal of story telling - but very little truth sir.

Adam was physically FORMED/MADE on the 3rd Day (Gen. 2:7)

Pure error.

Gen 2:7 does NOT mention "the third day".

Genesis 1 DOES and tells us that on the third day ONLY PLANTS were created!!

Gen 1 ALREADY tells us that man was created on DAY SIX.

Trying to "make stuff up" no matter what scripture says to the contrary yields much novel story telling -- but no truth sir.

The argument is made that we must SHOW in scripture that on Day 3 the PLANTS were made - but not man.

And on day SIX MANKIND was created but not PLANTS.

We refer those who seek such proof to Genesis 1 and a bit of honest exegesis of the text which GIVES us a chronological SEQUENCE.

THE ONLY text in fact that DOES!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Dear Bob,

The next generation in Adam's image was Seth not Cain, as recorded in the Scripture.

Look and read closely...

Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. IN THE DAY (very specific time of event) that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

The context of the text is also consistent as outlined and summarized in Genesis chapter 1. Therefore, by the grace of God, both A&E were created in the image and likeness of God or Born Again Spiritually in Christ -- after they have sinned -- contrary to fall theory and teachings.

Your need to continually avoid the inconvenient details of scripture -- is glaringly obvious.

In the "Chronological SEQUENCE" we are given for the six days of creation -- THE ONLY ONE we HAVE in scripture -- we SEE that on DAY SIX God CREATES mankind and on the SAME DAY His ONE act of creation created them IN HIS OWN IMAGE...

Period.

No way to edit, revise or bend that text to your usages sir.

Might as well accept the Word of God for what it says on that point.

Gen 1
24 Then God said, ""Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind''; and it was so.
25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, ""Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.''
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "" Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.''
29 Then God said, ""Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food''; and it was so.
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day


-- NO reference to man MADE on DAY 3 -- in that chronological sequence.

--NO refernece to God NOT making man in His own image on the DAY that man was made -- the SIXTH day!

-- NO MENTION of God making anyone OTHER than Adam and Eve on that ONE day that God made MAN -- the ONLY day that He made man! -- Day SIX.

This is so increadibly glaringly obvious -- I don't see how anyone could turn a blind eye to it honestly.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So please, next time, do not continue blaming Adam & Eve for your misfortune or death. IF they have not sinned, perhaps, you wouldn't have been here - living and enjoying your own little world right now.

God Bless

GOD said that BECAUSE of the ONE man's sin ALL DIE (Rom 5)

YOU SAY that because of the ONE man's sin ALL are created ALL have come to life ALL exist.

A more direct contradiction could not be imagined sir. Leave off story telling - choose the Word of God instead.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Bob,

Based on the reconciliation of the text, here's how Adam was PHYSICALLY MADE on the 3rd Day -- then CREATED SPIRITUALLY in the image and likeness of God on the 6th Day - as it is written in the Scripture.

Please note that the event during the physical making of Adam is entirely different event from the spiritual creation of A&E in the image and likeness of God.

"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created (his Father), in the day that the LORD God (Son) made the earth and the heavens, (Plural)

Notice the difference / usage of the words "CREATED" and "MADE" on the above verse? Can you tell us why?

The "Day" is the 3rd Day. One can see this because it is the "Day" in which the "Earth" is made. Gen. 1:9-10 confirms that the "Earth" was made on the 3rd Day.

Heavens is Plural and shows that Jesus also made "Heavens", on the 3rd Day. The 1st Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8 Gen 2 is showing that on the 3rd Day, Jesus made other "Heavens".

Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

Further confirmation that these verses are speaking of the 3rd Day, BEFORE the plants, and herbs, which were made on the 3rd Day, according to Gen 1:11-12

Why do you suppose Scripture is going into such detail of the events of the 3rd Day?

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Obviously, Gen 2:4-7 is showing us the "Day" when Adam was formed, physically. Adam and Eve were later Created, in God's Image, on the 6th Day. This is the Spiritual Creation of Adam and Eve, at the same time - Gen. 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

The PHYSICAL MAKING of Adam from the dust of the ground becoming a NATURAL living soul (Gen. 2:7) is OBVIOUSLY, entirely different event from the CREATION of A&E in the image and likeness of God, SPIRITUALLY (Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1-2).

The CREATION event took place after Cain had already killed Abel, as CLEARLY documented in the Scripture, chronologically.

1 CORINTHIANS 15
v45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

There are just too many perversion of the text you have to overcome in order to support your wild imagination and flawed understanding of the Scripture. Sorry, Bob.

God Bless

 

[BobRyan]

here we SEE what God said HE DID on the 3rd day --

9 Then God said, "" Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear''; and it was so.
10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, ""Let the earth sprout vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them''; and it was so.
12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.
13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.


This is where we all notice NO MENTION of "MAKING MAN" and this is where we all notice "THIRD DAY" specified.

There is no "MAKing Adam on Day THREE then CREATING Adam on Day 6" mythology happening here!

In fact this is the ONLY PLACE IN ALL OF SCRIPTURE where the "THIRD DAY" is actually referenced explicitly!!

This is FOLLOWED by the FOURTH day where the SUN and MOON are made.

Now with such an easy and simple set of facts- one might "imagine" that it is impossible to hit a foul ball on this one. And "yet"...

There is also NO SCIENCE saying that Cro-magnon was MADE before the Sun - so trying to insert humanist views of orgins into God's account totally fails here as well.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Bob,

You're not SCREAMING at me, are you? :laugh:

BWT, unlike you, I don't play "WORD GAMES" nor maliciously distort other's recorded stand -- for fallacious argument. It is obvious desperation attempt of those who can no longer hold on and defend their flawed religious view. Is frustration setting in, Bob?

How can I help you?

 

[BobRyan]

In Gen 2 - God provides the emphasis, basis and foundation for the Marriage institution.


It does not form a chronology - no time is mentioned in these verses. But we know that the salient portion of the text (making man,
making the animals, making woman - marriage) all happened on the one day - the 6th day of creation week.

NIV -
5 no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there [/quote]

was no man to work the ground,

6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground—

Gen 2 is NOT a CHRONOLOGICAL sequence so we have to use STRICT ATTENTION to Gen 1 details to navigate the Gen 2 account and find the timeline –


In the case of vs 5 AND 6 we CAN easily see DETAILS of conditions on earth at the start of day 3. We can only know it is day 3 by going back to Gen 1 and stick with the details given there. We have the ADDED DETAIL in Gen 2 for Day 3 – the DETAIL that there was no rain – that water came UP to water the earth rather than also falling DOWN upon the earth.


NEXT – we GN to see the details of Day SIX – which we SEE as Day 6 in Gen 1 SINCE we CONTINUE to pay close attention to the chronological SEQUENCE of Gen 1 and find the DETAILS in Gen 1 that once again MATCH the DETAILS of Gen 2… And so we have a roadmap through the NON-TIME NON-Chronology account in Gen 2


Gen 2
7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. (Living Soul)


There is NO reference here to “man existing PRIOR to this formation”. This is God creating Man JUST as we see in the chronological sequence of Gen 1 only now we are given the ADDED DETAIL that man is formed from the DUST of the ground. The breath of life breathed into him and HE BECOMES a living soul. Day SIX details given and ADDED to the day six details ALREADY given in Gen 1.

Here we see Day SIX CONTINUED in Gen 2 with the ADDED DETAIL of God having also planted a Garden (does not say WHEN just that He HAD done it by Day six) -- But now we see Him actively PUT Adam IN that garden ALREADY made.


8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed.
9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.
11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold.
12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.)
13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.
14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Here we see the day SIX detail of the “LAW” regarding the tree of knowledge of good and EVIL and we see the proximity of the Tree of LIFE to the forbidden tree AS WELL as their CENTRAL location in the Garden God HAD made. To this detail is ADDED the details of the creation of woman BOTH man AND woman created on Day SIX – only with added details about the fact that Adam was created first and THEN Eve on THAT day.


No mention of Adam OR EVE ALREADY existing before this!!


18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."


Here is another reference to PRIOR fact – God HAD FORMED the animals (as we saw on Day 5 AND SIX in Gen 1) – and now He brings them to Adam on Day SIX.


19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.


The Correct sequence: “Now the LORD (YHWH) God HAD formed out of the ground all the beasts”…NIV, NIRV, NIV-UK,



20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.
21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.
22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.



Here again we see more “day SIX DETAILS” for we know that BOTH man and woman were MADE on Day six from Gen 1.



God sets up the basis for marriage and the need for both partners. Since this is not a time chronology - it merely says that
God "had formed from the ground all the beasts of the field". And of course we know the exact sequence for WHEN that happened
as it has already been given in the previous chapter.

We have the added details given that no rain had fallen and that God was forming out of dust - directly from dust to living animal, complete without
"intermediate steps " or the introduction of billions of years between the dust of the ground and the perfect animal.


23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called `woman,' for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Bob,

The only reason to believe such, is in a vain effort to support your false theories that God Created everything in 6-24 hour Days. The verses you posted, deny your assumption.

When Jesus told Adam that he would surely die, In The Day, that he disobeyed, Adam had not yet been Created in the image and likeness of God, for the simple reason (common sense) Eve had not yet been formed from his ribs.

Adam was formed physically on the 3rd Day, and named the beasts of the Field and Birds, formed from the gounnd at the beginning of the 6th Day, but he was not Created in God's Image until after Cain killed Abel.

God Bless

 

[BobRyan]

When I post a thorough detailed review of Gen 2 facts including all the inconvenient details that 4Pillar needs to deny to hold to the extreme speculation in his posts ... I get

Dear Bob,

The only reason to believe such, is in a vain effort to support your false theories that God Created everything in 6-24 hour Days.

#1. that Response is NOT exegesis of the text it is merely turning a blind eye to the details that do not fit your views.

#2. EVENING and MORNING placed together in scripture ARE ALWAYS one day. The Exodus 20:8-11 SUMMARY of the SAME inconvenient facts SHOW that this is in fact 7 24 hour days!!

Impossible to ignore.

Impossible to obfuscate turn or bend to other usages.

If you have a version of Gen 1 or Exodus 20:8-11 that inserts MILLENNIA between the creation of plants and then the creation of the sun -- show it.

When Jesus told Adam that he would surely die, In The Day, that he disobeyed,

"IN the DAY" Adam ate his sinful nature was created - his sinLESS nature ceased to be -- that VERY DAY! And God states in Gen 3 "LEST he turn and EAT from the tree of life" -- pointing to man's ONGOING life that day as a being but certain physical death.

What we DO NOT find in Gen 1 OR 2 is

" Adam was formed physically on the 3rd Day," For that bit of fiction we have only 4Pillars

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Dear Bob,

The only reason to believe such, is in a vain effort to support your false theories that God Created everything in 6-24 hour Days.

Exod 20[/b]
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
[/b]


Oh that everyone would embrace God's Word just as it reads – evolutionism would not be so well accepted among Christians – if they did.

God literally points the reader back to His own literal act in literally creating the world in six literal evenings and mornings – six literal days. Indeed God IS our literal Creator friends! The same language is used in Exodus 20:11 as we see in Gen 2:3 stating the very action taken by God on the 7th day of Creation week.

Further the term “Yom” used in Exodus 20 forms a hard and fast contextual link (same author, same topic, same term, same audience) connecting the “Yom” of Gen 2:3 with the “Yom” (day) of Exodus 20:8-11.

4Pillar's comment above is very very instructive for the reader. By denying the truth of Gen 1 AND the truth of Exodus 20:8-11 regarding Christ the Creator's sabbath the door is opened to humanism and evolutionism.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Bob,

Like you, most YECs don't know the difference between God's time and man's time. God has but 7 Days and Today is the 6th Day.

At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

With this evidence in mind, can you tell us what Day it is? Seems like an easy test, for sure. Just list your answer here:

 

[4Pillars]

Dear Bob,

Genesis 1 is the History of the Creation of the 3rd Heaven. It details the History of How the Godhead Created His Perfect, physical, world -- from being good.

Most of it is past, but some of it is future. Gen. 1:29 shows us Prophecy that mankind will Eat of Every Tree, which includes the Tree of Life. This prophecy is fulfilled in Heaven. Rev. 22:2

Gen. 1:30 is also future and will be fulfilled when Jesus Returns to this Planet, and the Lion eats Straw as the Ox. Isaiah 11:7

When these prophecies are fulfilled, God's Creation of His Perfect Heaven, will be completed, and brought to Perfection....Finished. Then God will Rest or Sabbath, and He will Cease "ALL His work which God created and made." Gen. 2:3

The 7th day of God has no end.

 

[J. Jump]

Phil 2:5-8
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
(NAS)

Nice Scripture passage. However, the problem is that it in no way proves your point. It says Jesus emptied Himself, but it doesn't tell you of what in this verse.

You try to tie two things together that are tied together. It's comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare Scripture with Scripture, which we need to do, we need to compare like Scripture with like Scripture, not just pull a verse here and there and make Scripture say something that we want it to.

You are either All-Knowing or you are not. You can't be All-Knowing yet not know something at some point. Because at that point you cease to be All-Knowing.

DHK used the example of Jesus calling down Peter and his "lack" of swordsmanship This does not prove that Jesus set aside His omnipotence when He came to earth. It just shows that He chose not to use it at that point, but you can't say that He didn't have access to it at that time.

The Scripture you, DHK and Bob have mentioned is speaking of Christ emptying Himself of His Glory. Everything else was fully in tact.

Quote:
By the way from what I have been told by someone that has a degree in Greek the way this verse has been translated leads to the false idea that Christ is not All-Knowing, when in reality it is a verse that is poorly put together and in the original language does not leave that impression.

If you look long enough, you can find some "bible scholar" to back up almost any position you choose.

That is true, but you can't argue with the language. It either says what it says or it does not. And there are a number of places that the "translators" unfortunately did not do a very good job in their translation.

Now we can get into a KJVonly free-for-all, but God's Word (not the translation of His Word) is God's Word and we must allow It to be so.

 

[dispen4ever]

In response to the OP, Genesis I and II reveal the amazing fact of creation by an awesome spiritual entity known to us as God. To nickle and dime it to death is a HUGE waste of time. Far better to dwell (yes, dwell) on His amazing love and sacrifice, to spend our days sharing Him with others. :love2:

 

[BobRyan]

Dear Bob,

Most of it is past, but some of it is future. Gen. 1:29 shows us Prophecy that mankind will Eat of Every Tree, which includes the Tree of Life. This prophecy is fulfilled in Heaven. Rev. 22:2

Gen. 1:30 is also future and will be fulfilled when Jesus Returns to this Planet, and the Lion eats Straw as the Ox. Isaiah 11:7

When these prophecies are fulfilled, God's Creation of His Perfect Heaven, will be completed, and brought to Perfection....Finished. Then God will Rest or Sabbath, and He will Cease "ALL His work which God created and made." Gen. 2:3

The 7th day of God has no end.

Notice that INSTEAD of God saying "SOMEDay this will happen AND SOMEDAY this will be GOOD" God stated that it all DID Happen and not only was it Good -- as a finished and completed work - but GOD RESTED from ALL that he had done -- THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED that day of rest for ON IT HE restED.


Period.


No prophecy in this historic "ACCOUNT of the creation of the heavens and the earth" just historic FACT.

The language IN the text shows COMPLETED work - not PREDICTED work --

Ex 20 -

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed[/b], and all their hosts.
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.[/quote]


This is obvious - nothing is left UNDONE here-- it is all stated as COMPLETED!

These inconvenient Bible details are fun to ignore if you are not comfortable with them - but it is "required that you ignore them" if you want to hold to the future insertion that 4Pillar has attempted.

Here is another perfect example of the COMPLETED work of Creation week - NOT incomplete NOT still pending NOT still waiting on completion.


Ex 20[/b]
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

 

[DHK]

Dear Bob,

There are just too many perversion of the text you have to overcome in order to support your wild imagination and flawed understanding of the Scripture. Sorry, Bob.

God Bless

Your assumption that Bob's exegesis of Genesis one and two is his wild imagination and flawed understanding, while at the same time you can neither refute the same exegeted facts, but only allegorize the scriptures according to your own imaginative stories, puts you in the realm of a gnostic.