4Pillars said:
GE:
Scarlet Pimpernel, what good do you do? You just attract attention upon yourself.
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Understanding Genesis 1&2
- Thread starter 4Pillars
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GE:
Scarlet Pimpernel, what good do you do? You just attract attention upon yourself.
Understanding Genesis 1 and 2 - for me - is an impossibility were it not to be understood in the light of John 1.
Therefore I cannot see how God could have proclaimed "all He had done / made" was "very good" excluding what He had done in and through Jesus Christ incarnated -- without the redemption of "all the works of God"!
That is only explainable if God's Sabbath's-works had been of prophetic, eschatological, proleptic -- call it what you like -- nature: Messianic works! God's rest had been and would be "wrought", by "the exceeding greatness of His power", the "exceeding (incomparable, unprecedented) greatness of His power WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD".
Therefore I maintain God's "finishing" and "rest" and "blessing" and "hallowing" upon the Seventh Day in the beginning of the creation, were His Sabbath's deeds of rest through and in and to the glory of Jesus Christ. Christ would be raised "in the Sabbath" --- "according to the Scriptures", that is.
Therefore I cannot see how God could have proclaimed "all He had done / made" was "very good" excluding what He had done in and through Jesus Christ incarnated -- without the redemption of "all the works of God"!
That is only explainable if God's Sabbath's-works had been of prophetic, eschatological, proleptic -- call it what you like -- nature: Messianic works! God's rest had been and would be "wrought", by "the exceeding greatness of His power", the "exceeding (incomparable, unprecedented) greatness of His power WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD".
Therefore I maintain God's "finishing" and "rest" and "blessing" and "hallowing" upon the Seventh Day in the beginning of the creation, were His Sabbath's deeds of rest through and in and to the glory of Jesus Christ. Christ would be raised "in the Sabbath" --- "according to the Scriptures", that is.
Perhaps that's what 4Pillars meant with saying:
"Here is how and when the Creation is COMPLETED and PERFECTED at the end of this present 6th day of God' creation -- contrary to your flawed traditional understanding. [ad hominen deleted]
"in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth" (Gen 1:1)
"I saw a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev 21:1)
____________________________________________
"The gathering together of waters He called the Sea" (Gen1:10)
"And the Sea is no more" (Rev 21:1)
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"The darkness He called Night" (Gen 1:5)
"there shall be no night there" (Rev 21:25)
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God made the two great lights (sun and moon)" (Gen1:16)
"the city has no need of the Sun nor the Moon" (Rev 21:23)
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"in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17)
"death shall be no more" (Rev 21:14)
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"I will greatly multiply your pain" (Gen 3:16)
"Neither shall there be pain anymore" (Rev 21:4)
____________________________________________
"cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17)
"There shall be no more curse" (Rev 22:3)
____________________________________________
Satan appears as the deceiver of mankind (Gen 3:1-4)
Satan disappears forever (Rev 20:10)
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They were driven from the Tree of Life (gen 3:22-24)
The Tree of Life re-appears (Rev 22:2)
____________________________________________
They were driven from GOd's presence (Gen 3:24)
"they shall see His face" (Rev 22:4)
____________________________________________
Man's primeval home was by a river (Gen 2:10)
Man's Eternal home will be beside a river (Rev 22:1)
____________________________________________
Please remember that God doesn't STOP creating things very good, He CREATES them PERFECT. His real Creation, which is perfect, is the 3rd Heaven, and when it comes He will rest from ALL of His CREATION. So far, everything that has been made is VERY GOOD, and will be perfected at the end of this present 6th day's (tonight). Then He will rest from all of his work on the 7th day."
Perhaps ... his last remark with big question marks though.
"Here is how and when the Creation is COMPLETED and PERFECTED at the end of this present 6th day of God' creation -- contrary to your flawed traditional understanding. [ad hominen deleted]
"in the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth" (Gen 1:1)
"I saw a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev 21:1)
____________________________________________
"The gathering together of waters He called the Sea" (Gen1:10)
"And the Sea is no more" (Rev 21:1)
____________________________________________
"The darkness He called Night" (Gen 1:5)
"there shall be no night there" (Rev 21:25)
____________________________________________
God made the two great lights (sun and moon)" (Gen1:16)
"the city has no need of the Sun nor the Moon" (Rev 21:23)
____________________________________________
"in the day you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17)
"death shall be no more" (Rev 21:14)
____________________________________________
"I will greatly multiply your pain" (Gen 3:16)
"Neither shall there be pain anymore" (Rev 21:4)
____________________________________________
"cursed is the ground for your sake" (Gen 3:17)
"There shall be no more curse" (Rev 22:3)
____________________________________________
Satan appears as the deceiver of mankind (Gen 3:1-4)
Satan disappears forever (Rev 20:10)
____________________________________________
They were driven from the Tree of Life (gen 3:22-24)
The Tree of Life re-appears (Rev 22:2)
____________________________________________
They were driven from GOd's presence (Gen 3:24)
"they shall see His face" (Rev 22:4)
____________________________________________
Man's primeval home was by a river (Gen 2:10)
Man's Eternal home will be beside a river (Rev 22:1)
____________________________________________
Please remember that God doesn't STOP creating things very good, He CREATES them PERFECT. His real Creation, which is perfect, is the 3rd Heaven, and when it comes He will rest from ALL of His CREATION. So far, everything that has been made is VERY GOOD, and will be perfected at the end of this present 6th day's (tonight). Then He will rest from all of his work on the 7th day."
Perhaps ... his last remark with big question marks though.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
4Pillars said:
Bump to 4Pillars.
I keep pointing out the "completED" language IN THE TEXT of scripture and you keep IGNORING the inconvenient DETAILS in the TEXT of SCRIPUTRE and then INSERTING your OWN "INCOMPLETE" language JUST where scripture says COMPLETED.
You keep contrasting these TWO sources (scripture vs you) in your posts to me AS IF you had "done something good" in proving your point.
Clearly you only further exposed the perfidity of your myths - so then why do you repeatedly expose your own flaw and ask me for rebuttal?
That makes no sense at all!!
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan, You should for once take seriously your own words, "I keep pointing out the "completED" language IN THE TEXT of scripture and you keep IGNORING the inconvenient DETAILS in the TEXT of SCRIPUTRE and then INSERTING your OWN "INCOMPLETE" language JUST where scripture says COMPLETED."
Past Perfect with God is Present Tense, and Future Perfect, for all He had ever done and 'completED', he finished and completed not only through Jesus Christ, but "IN HIM" - in Him and by Him and unto Him in resurrection from the dead, ultimately. Only in raising Christ from the dead, has God finished of death - has He finished off incompleteness, imperfection, the antipole of life and fulness. God RESTED the Seventh Day: REST was God's works of that day ON that day, ONLY.
Past Perfect with God is Present Tense, and Future Perfect, for all He had ever done and 'completED', he finished and completed not only through Jesus Christ, but "IN HIM" - in Him and by Him and unto Him in resurrection from the dead, ultimately. Only in raising Christ from the dead, has God finished of death - has He finished off incompleteness, imperfection, the antipole of life and fulness. God RESTED the Seventh Day: REST was God's works of that day ON that day, ONLY.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
4Pillars said:
Gen 1:1 God declared to be the maker of the entire Universe.
Gen 1:2-2:3 God uses 7 literal "evening-and-morning" sequence to create all life on earth and form the Earth, moon and Sun. Only the timeline for making the Earth, Moon and Sun is given in Gen 1 -- the reference to other stars and the fact that God is also the one that made them "is incidental".
So we have no basis to say that other stars/planets/galaxies in our universe are no older than life on earth.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
BobRyan said:
"For in Six days the Lord God MADE "
Ex 20
8 ""Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 "" Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 "" For in six days the LORD made[/b] the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
"And evening and morning WERE the nth-day"
These events were finished as stated.
Impossible to obfuscate or ignore for the objective unbiased reader.
in Christ,
Bob
4Pillars said:
Read and learn...
Isaiah 46:10 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the End from the Beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
God Bless
Here's how you reconcile the Story of the Beginning BEFORE God created the heaven and the earth, ref. (Genesis 1:1) based strickly on the Scripture. Note: Insertions are mine for clarity of thoughts.
In the beginning was the Word (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son). John 1:1
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23
And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3
Note: The first WORD spoken by God as recorded in the Scripture.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5
Based on the above three 3 witnesses (Scriptures), notice the text is documenting us How and When the “WORD” was brought forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father (John 1:1; Gen. 1:3) – BEFORE anything is made that was made in the beginning. I also believe that the above scriptural reconciliations prove, without a doubt, that our heaven and the earth, ref. Genesis 1:1 were still null and void -- not yet in existence -- on the 1st. day.
God Bless
In the beginning was the Word (Light), and the Word was with God (Father), and the Word was God (Son). John 1:1
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Proverbs 8:22
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Proverbs 8:23
And God said, LET THERE BE LIGHT: and there was light. Genesis 1:3
Note: The first WORD spoken by God as recorded in the Scripture.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Proverbs 8:24
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Genesis 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 1:4
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Proverbs 8:25
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5
Based on the above three 3 witnesses (Scriptures), notice the text is documenting us How and When the “WORD” was brought forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father (John 1:1; Gen. 1:3) – BEFORE anything is made that was made in the beginning. I also believe that the above scriptural reconciliations prove, without a doubt, that our heaven and the earth, ref. Genesis 1:1 were still null and void -- not yet in existence -- on the 1st. day.
God Bless
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
4Pillars said:
The only "complete story" that we have is the one for creation of life on earth, the Sun and the moon.
No account of "creation of angels"
No account of "creation of the 4 beasts of Rev 4".
No account of "creation of the elders" of Rev 4.
No account of the creation of "principalities and powers and rulers in the heavenly places" described in the NT.
No account of the creation of the "holy watchers" of Dan .
No account of creation of any other planets in any other solar systems. (remember that we can only see stars outside of our solar system with the naked eye).
We know from Gen 1:1 and John 1:1-3 that God is the creator of all that has been made -- all the universe and that includes all objectings, beings planets NOT appearing as "stars in the sky" and NOT described in Gen 1. We just don't know "when".
in Christ,
Bob
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4Pillars said:
BobRyan said:
I am so sorry you have so much trouble understanding Scripture. Perhaps, if you "study to shew thyself approved unto God," he will let you understand a little bit more of it.
As it is written....
Deut. 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
God Bless
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Our limited life on this planet is but a small measure of our Eternal life in Heaven. God "Creates" (ex nihilo) only 3 times in Gen 1. The first time He "creates" is when He speaks and the air, dust, and water are formed. Air, dust, and water were created in the beginning, and will be in Heaven, eternally. Everything God "creates" is for Eternity.
The 2nd time God "creates" in Gen 1, is when every living creature that moveth, was created from the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 Does this mean that "every living creature that moveth" is created Eternally?
The 3rd and final time God "creates" in Gen 1 is when mankind is Created in God's Image, or in Christ, for this is man's Spiritual Creation. Man's Spiritual Creation is for Eternity. We will live forever with Jesus, in Heaven.
God Bless
The 2nd time God "creates" in Gen 1, is when every living creature that moveth, was created from the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 Does this mean that "every living creature that moveth" is created Eternally?
The 3rd and final time God "creates" in Gen 1 is when mankind is Created in God's Image, or in Christ, for this is man's Spiritual Creation. Man's Spiritual Creation is for Eternity. We will live forever with Jesus, in Heaven.
God Bless
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God said "for in the day you eat - you shall surely die" Gen 2
Satan said "you shall not die" Gen 3.
God said "LEST he eat of the tree and LIVE forever" Gen 3 and so God blocked that option with an angel and flaming sword.
ALL life in the universe is not described in Gen 1.
No mention of angels created.
No mention of the elders or beasts of Rev 4
No mention of the "Holy Watchers" of Daniel in Gen 1 being "created".
They were created of course at some time - but not in the 7 days of earth's creation week.
in Christ,
Bob
Satan said "you shall not die" Gen 3.
God said "LEST he eat of the tree and LIVE forever" Gen 3 and so God blocked that option with an angel and flaming sword.
ALL life in the universe is not described in Gen 1.
No mention of angels created.
No mention of the elders or beasts of Rev 4
No mention of the "Holy Watchers" of Daniel in Gen 1 being "created".
They were created of course at some time - but not in the 7 days of earth's creation week.
in Christ,
Bob
I don't care how anyone interprets the creation in Genesis -- if Christ be obscured therein, it's not for me; if Christ be seen and lifted up higher than the highest heavens .... then we can begin to talk. "Let's talk Bible!" (Jannie Smuts)
The Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath because God created everything in six days and on the seventh day which is the Sabbath he rested. There was only one creation. That which you have postulated is not Biblical. There was only one one creation. And all things were created during that creation of six days.4Pillars said:
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
BobRyan said:
DHK said:
There was no 24 Hour Day during the creation process and Genesis 1 does not state that there was a 24 hour Day. Genesis 1 shows that God has 6 Creative Days, and 1 Day of Rest -- which will Never End.
When Adam was told that he would surely DIE in the Day, that he disobeyed, it was BEFORE Eve was formed. Adam did not die physically, within 24 hours, and could not have died Spiritually, because he was not Created Spiritually until AFTER Eve was formed. Gen. 1:27 and Gen. 5:1-2 show that Adam was Created, at the SAME time when Eve was created.
If you think a Day to God is 24 hours, then Jesus must have lied to Adam, and Satan must have told him the Truth. At least, that's what your theories of a 24 hour Day of Creation, appear to support.
The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest in Gen. 1 are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End.
God Bless
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DHK said:
Brethren in Christ:
God has but 7 Days. He has 6 Creative Days in which He labors to bring His Creation to Perfection. At the end of the 6th Day or Age, God gives man to eat of Every tree, including the Tree of Life. God also gives ALL animals to eat herbs as meat.
This Prophecy is Future because mankind has NEVER eaten of Every Tree and there has NEVER been a time when ALL animals were vegetarians. The Prophecy of Genesis 1:29-30 has NOT yet happened, which means that we remain in the 6th Day.
Jesus told Adam that he would surely die IN THE DAY he disobeyed. Adam did Not die physically, for he lived to be 930 years old as shown in Gen 5:5. Adam did not die Spiritually because God doesn't make mistakes and those who are born Spiritually are born Eternally.
Did Satan tell A&E the Truth, and Jesus lie to them? There is only One way the LORD can be right, and that is for Today to be the 6th Day. All mankind has lived and died on the present 6th Day. God will Not rest until His Creation is made Perfect.
God completes His work in 6 Days, and Genesis 2 tells us of the 7th Day when God will Rest (Heb-Shabath-Cease to Create). Scripture tells us that God rested from ALL His work, which He had Created and Made.
Jesus tells us that the Father and He are still working, Today, and most Christians believe that God, the Holy Ghost is continuing His work, Today. Look and read....
... Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto (Greek- up to the present time), and I work. John 5:17
Based on the above, how do you explain that God has more than 7days and violate his own shabath?
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