• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Understanding Preterism

Status
Not open for further replies.

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The 'Lord of the Vineyard' in the parable is God the Father. To be sure, He did let out the vineyard to others, but He didn't wait until AD 70 to start doing it (eg. Acts 13:46).
I see you left out the important intervening verses. Notice the phrases underlined. Did any of this happen pre AD 70?:

40. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“ ‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’ ?
43. “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
44. Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.


The leaders truly saw that all of this was directed to them, not just the letting out. What you cite form Acts does not fit the prophecy. At any rate the vineyard and the vine is closely connected to Jerusalem and the Jewish worship. Many verse can be cited, especially from the OT to support this. I no longer bother doing this, however, when writing to you. You gloss over them.
This is a fine illustration of the error of Hyper-preterism, The Greek of 'cities' is polis, meaning a larger town or city with a wall as apposed to Kome, a 'village' or smaller town. The two appear together in Matthew 9:35; Luke 8:1; 13:22. It wouldn't have taken 40 years until the Apostles had gone round the cities of Israel. Yet Matt 24:14 says that the Gospel has to be preached all over the world before 'the end comes.' That still hasn't been achieved today.
The "cities of Israel" are not just the ones in Israel. They are the cities wherever the Jews dwell. This is throughout the Empire . And, yes, the witness to all of those cities was completed before the end. Paul seems to have spoken of this goal as having been accomplished in his lifetime (Col 1:23. Note past tense, "was preached"). At any rate it was done in that century.

Immediately after these words were spoken they were fulfilled in Matthew 17:1-8 etc. The kingdom of God came with the coming of Christ (Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15), but it is not yet visible to all (Luke 17:21). Peter, James and John were given a preview of Christ in His glory.
Your use of Matthew 17:1-8 as the answer for for 16:28 is very lame. You essentially have the Lord Jesus Christ say, "None of you will die in the next six days". That is the ridiculous corollary for that interpretation.

The vast majority of the Jewish leaders present when our Lord said this would have been long dead by the time AD 70 came, 40 years later. Moreover, 'every eye will see Him' (Revelation 1:7) in the general resurrection when our Lord returns at the end of time. If anybody saw the Lord Jesus in AD 70, he didn't think it worth writing about.

There was very little writing in the next thirty years. Possibly none. The ones who are often cited for this period actually wrote pre-Ad 70. The earliest one whose dates can be even somewhat pinpointed is probably Ignatius. from around the turn of the century. he has written things that can be, in some cases, pro Preterist interpretation and, in other cases, non-Preterist. Anyhow, he already gave clear indication of the other errors creeping into Christendom, so he is not the great source that we might want.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Scholastic Exercise? I am disappointed here.

How many imminency words and phrases do we have to cite from the New Testament to move this beyond the realm of scholastic exercise which, I assume, is tangential to cherry-picking? A dozen? Thirty? There are actually around a hundred such word and/or phrase occurrences.

I would list them if I thought they would seriously be considered. But I believe that you would still focus on the one or two verses that can be slanted in the opposite direction.

And I am not saying this in a snarky way, Hank. It is just an observation. I can see you are a very smart man, courteous to boot. But we all have our blind spots.
Tom I felt I had to sanitize my language in an attempt to tone down the animosity you are receiving, "scholastic" is a non-confrontational term (for the most part) and a good starting point to get your faith essentials public without the firestorm. It's a good starting point, no?

btw my wife and I are in a hotel just across from the Seattle airport, tomorrow AM we will fly off to Honolulu (DV) on the celebration of our 50th wedding anniversary.Your prayers for our safety are coveted.

HankD
 
Last edited:

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Tom I felt I had to sanitize my language in an attempt to tone down the animosity you are receiving, "scholastic" is a non-confrontational term (for the most part) and a good starting point to get your faith essentials public without the firestorm. It's a good starting point, no?

btw my wife and I are in a hotel just across from the Seattle airport, tomorrow AM we will fly off to Honolulu (DV) on the celebration of our 50th wedding anniversary.Your prayers for our safety are coveted.

HankD

Wow. 50 years. Excellent. Yes, we will pray for you, brother. My wife and I have only been married a mere third of a century. But I didn't marry until I was 30.

I hope you both have a great time in Hawaii.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top