Unequally Yoked Wedding

[Helen]

While discussing all this, please remember that there are a number of people who claim Christianity for the purpose of getting married to another person. We know of several couples where this has happened. The situations can get rather sticky, eh?

James says to ask for wisdom and you will get it. So maybe best not to try to decide blanket responses before the situation arises and you have a chance to pray about those two people individually.

In the meaning, to respond to the opening post, my husband chose not to attend the wedding (it was in Australia and I was in California at the time, so I was not faced with the decision) of a couple, one of whom was a very close friend, who had chosen to live together before marriage. It was hard on all of them, but he felt he had to take a stand. (It was a mistake I had made before, when I was young, and paid for it dearly). Both, by the way, claimed to be Christians.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Upon what point would you let him back in?
In your post above you said "repentance and acknowledgement"

I can see him say, "Yes I know it was a sin..." That was an acknowledgement...

But the repentance is the tricky part...
He could say, "I'm sorry" but would that be repentance?
After all, repentance means turning from the sin... and in this case, that would mean turning from his wife... divorce... or at least seperation...

Or would you accept, "I'm sorry" and they could go their happy way.
Would you accept, "I'm sorry, however we love each other and are going to stay married"?

I am just asking out of curiosity.. because I have never seen church discipline started because of this issue....

Usually, believers do not continue when confronted with Scripture. And very few churches practice church discipline. Acknowleddgement and repentance would being saying "This was sin and I should not have done it."

I guess what I am asking is this: Is this a one time sin? (at the marriage ceremony) or, is this an ongoing sin.. (the whole marriage)

It is a one time sin.

And what sins do you call people on the carpet for?...

All of them. there is no acceptable level of sin in a believer's life.

If we discipline over every sin, the church would not get anything done...
but church discipline.

that would be helpful for some churches in that it would clear out unbelievers. But remember, the issue is not sin, but habitual unrepentant sin.

Do you personally go to every member in your flock that you have knowledge that they sin, and ask them to repent? Even if it is a one time sin?

No. I don't know of all of them. And I expect members of hte body to do that.

Or do you give the Holy Spirit time to convict their heart...

That comes in conjunction with the biblical admonition of going to others in sin. We are part of what the Holy Spirit uses.

But I have never went over a one time sin.

It depends on the sin. If I know of a guy who committed adultery one time, I am going immediately.

And the only outward sign of repentance for an unequally yoked marriage would be divorce.

No, it's not.

 

[tinytim]

Usually, believers do not continue when confronted with Scripture. And very few churches practice church discipline. Acknowleddgement and repentance would being saying "This was sin and I should not have done it."


It is a one time sin.

All of them. there is no acceptable level of sin in a believer's life.

that would be helpful for some churches in that it would clear out unbelievers. But remember, the issue is not sin, but habitual unrepentant sin.

No. I don't know of all of them. And I expect members of hte body to do that.

That comes in conjunction with the biblical admonition of going to others in sin. We are part of what the Holy Spirit uses.

It depends on the sin. If I know of a guy who committed adultery one time, I am going immediately.

No, it's not.

I see we are in more agreement than not...

And yes if a guy commits adultery, I am going to see him too...
So, I mis-spoke before... (my way of sayin "I was wr...wroon....uh.... not right ) )
I was thinking of what is normally called little sins, like Gossip..

 

[Pastor Larry]

I was thinking of what is normally called little sins, like Gossip..

But even with gossip, if I know about it, I am going to confront it the first time. If someone else comes to me and complains that so and so gossiped, I will send that person right back to so and so and tell them to confront it biblically.

 

[saturneptune]

The timing of the marriage in the above posts is a double standard. Either you believe you can not marry a non believer or you can. To say a church member can be disciplined because he or she marries and unbeliever in the first case, then turn right around and say if a believer who is a non member is married to an unbeliever, it is ok for him or her to join is ridiculous. Give one Scripture to back this up. This is nothing but a man made extra requirement. Church membership is not a standard of holiness.

Either you enforce the standard or you do not.

 

[4boys4joys]

Earth to 4boys4joys, are you there 4boys4joys? Come in b4boys4joys....

Your post is very abrupt. It is similar to your last posts (in a specific thread) directed to me, which is the only time you have attempted communication with me. Continue this unkindness I will not be replying to you in the future. Please calm down.

Getting back on topic, I would like you to supply me with just ONE verse which states a believer is forbidden to marry an unbeliever, then I will be totally convinced.

It's not my concern how many times you must tell your child something, but make sure what you tell them is the truth as best you know it to be. Using just one verse to support your stance can be fine, each situation is different. But that is common sense, something you knew already.

Blessings,

Joe

Your post could also be taken as abrupt. Just because you may not agree it does not mean that I am trying to be abrupt. I am not trying to be unkind to you. I simply posed a question. I would have asked this question of this post regardless of who posted it ?

So I will ask again, and you of course have the choice to answer or not. Why do we have to have more than one verse to obey God's commands, how many verses deem it valid ?

In answer to your question. You already posted the verse yourself in the other post. That is one verse. Which goes back to the same question I asked before. I was very calm when I directed this question to you in the first place. I do not try to attempt specific communication with anyone on the board I just respond to a post that strikes interest. If we happen to clash that is coincidental and not intended to be personal.

Using one verse to support your stance should be enough in some cases. I was trying to make the point that sometimes we need to have 20 verses before we see it as Bible and why is it that sometimes in our reasoning we do not feel one verse has enough weight to have us come to a decision. Yes each situation is different and we should use the whole counsel of God. But if God only chose to give one verse on the issue why do we lessen it's worth ? Just a thought that is not personal in nature just a different view than some which I guess is deemed abrupt if it is not in the majority.

It is so interesting to me how a poster who is in the majority is allowed to be abrupt but there is no room for a different view point that is written in sincerity and not unkindness, it is just different.

The example with children was a illustration. I do try to tell my children the trust the best I know how to. But I do ask them how many times does God have to say something before we should obey it ?

 

[4boys4joys]

Cannot agree more. First of all, you really dont know if the other person is saved or not. Very good post TT. For those who would exercise church discipline for this, I think your common sense is near zero.

I do not understand why you quoted me. If you read pinoybaptists reply it says why should church dicipline be given. It also says that once council is given that is there decision to accept it or not. I will just state how I feel about this so there is no confusion and if you read that post I agreed with it should line up.

If two people want to be married who are not yoked equally in the eyes of party who is giving counel than they have the liberty to listen and make a choice.

Exacting church dicipline would not make any sense in this case because we cannot judge the salvation of either party involved. This did match the post I agreed with and sorry for the confusion if there was any.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The timing of the marriage in the above posts is a double standard. Either you believe you can not marry a non believer or you can. To say a church member can be disciplined because he or she marries and unbeliever in the first case, then turn right around and say if a believer who is a non member is married to an unbeliever, it is ok for him or her to join is ridiculous. Give one Scripture to back this up. This is nothing but a man made extra requirement. Church membership is not a standard of holiness.

Either you enforce the standard or you do not.

You apparently misunderstand the standards. The standard to join the church is a credible profession of faith. The standard to remain in good standing is obedience.

1 Peter 3:1ff, and 1 Cor 7:15 (some where around there) address what happens when a person gets saved after marriage but their spouse does not.

But marrying an unbeliever is sin against God and should be dealt with as such, since marriage is about the gospel (Eph 5) and since unequal unions are forbidden (1 Cor 6).

So there is your Scripture. Don't complain to me. I didn't make it up.

 

[saturneptune]

You apparently misunderstand the standards. The standard to join the church is a credible profession of faith. The standard to remain in good standing is obedience.

1 Peter 3:1ff, and 1 Cor 7:15 (some where around there) address what happens when a person gets saved after marriage but their spouse does not.

But marrying an unbeliever is sin against God and should be dealt with as such, since marriage is about the gospel (Eph 5) and since unequal unions are forbidden (1 Cor 6).

So there is your Scripture. Don't complain to me. I didn't make it up.

That does not answer the point. Maybe I misunderstood, but your post said that a saved person married to an unbeliever can join your church on profession of faith, yet if he had been a member at the time of marriage, he would have been subject to church discipline. Your standard is a clock, not the Scripture. What if the non member was saved before he got married to the unbeliever? In that case, would your church accept his profession of faith or letter transfer? And if is the case, how do you validate that? Do you get a document of salvation and compare that date to his marriage certificate? :BangHead:

I am not disagreeing with the principle, about being unequally yoked, I am questioning the manner in which you treat the two cases differently. By the way, the verse is 2 Cor 6:14

 

[tinytim]

Just wondering, Pastor Larry... Would you exercise the same discipline against a member that marries a person that is saved, but has been divorced without it being for adultery?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Maybe I misunderstood, but your post said that a saved person married to an unbeliever can join your church on profession of faith, yet if he had been a member at the time of marriage, he would have been subject to church discipline. Your standard is a clock, not the Scripture.

No, the Scripture set the standard, and in so doing, used "a clock" if you want to put it that way. Let's consider another case: If a couple prior to marriage participates in sexual immorality, we can and should practice church discipline. But we can't discipline them for adultery. We can only discipline them for adultery if they are married. So Scripture has used "a clock" to distinguish in matters of church discipline.

What if the non member was saved before he got married to the unbeliever? In that case, would your church accept his profession of faith or letter transfer? And if is the case, how do you validate that? Do you get a document of salvation and compare that date to his marriage certificate?

People join on a credible profession of faith. If they have not been baptized, the profession is baptism along with his testimony. There is no "document of salvation" that I am aware of. When people want to join the church, we sit down and talk with them and find out what their spiritual status is and what their spiritual walk is. I honestly am not sure how this is confusing.

I am not disagreeing with the principle, about being unequally yoked, I am questioning the manner in which you treat the two cases differently.

I treat them differently because they are different. They are not the same case.

So what would you do if someone refused to obey God's word when shown what God said?

 

[saturneptune]

In relation to a church member marrying an unbeliever, if I was a pastor of a church, probably very similar to what you suggested. If it was a believer joining the church married to an unbeliever, probably a closer examination to make the two cases more consistant in action. It would depend on how God lead me.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Just remember that Scripture very clearly has teaching on what to do if a believer is already married to an unbeliever (1 Cor 7; 1 Peter 3). It also teaches about being unequally yoked, which seems to include all kinds of yokes including marriage. So I think how God would lead is pretty clear through his word. I am not sure where else we would look for leading.

 

[LeBuick]

Just remember that Scripture very clearly has teaching on what to do if a believer is already married to an unbeliever (1 Cor 7; 1 Peter 3). It also teaches about being unequally yoked, which seems to include all kinds of yokes including marriage. So I think how God would lead is pretty clear through his word. I am not sure where else we would look for leading.

Exactly, so would we apply the same discipline to one who has an unbelieving best friend? Business associate or partner?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Exactly, so would we apply the same discipline to one who has an unbelieving best friend? Business associate or partner?

Best friend? No, because it is a different kind of relationship than a marriage. Isn't that obvious? I can't imagine why that question would even be asked. However, I would wonder about a believer whose best friend is unsaved. That seems strange to me given the nature of the changed life.

Business associates or partners ... depends on the context. Church discipline? Probably not, but in some cases yes. I had a man in my church a few years ago who moved away who was in business with his unsaved father. He ended up buying out his father's part because of the unequal yoke. IMO, he did the right thing.

But again, a business relationship is so fundamentally and obviously different than a marriage that it is hard to imagine how that is the least bit relevant.

In fact, quite honestly, it is absurd that it comes up in this conversation. Perhaps it is indicative of how far some people will go to get around what Scripture teaches and rationalize bad choices, whether intentional or not.

 

[Joe]

Pastor Larry,

Why do I have an uneasy feeling your reply to LeBuick is in relation to my quote? (located in the Pastoral Thread)

I have a lot of Non-Christian friends I expect to see in heaven as they live very Christlike.

Because soon after, you post this...

Best friend? No, because it is a different kind of relationship than a marriage. Isn't that obvious? I can't imagine why that question would even be asked. However, I would wonder about a believer whose best friend is unsaved. That seems strange to me given the nature of the changed life.

As you know, there are two threads with a similar topic (Unequally yoked marriages) we are participating in.

With all due respect, that seems strange to me given the nature of the changed life that you would question a believer's salvation, a fellow BB'er, based upon whether their best friend is saved. It is not biblical nor Christlike.

Since you are a Pastor, I would think you would have more class than to go onto a public message board attacking someone for having an unsaved best friend. Maybe it wasn't intentional, or you are having a bad day. We're all human. Thank you for the scripture verses you provided.

Blessings to you,

Joe

 

[LeBuick]

Best friend? No, because it is a different kind of relationship than a marriage. Isn't that obvious? I can't imagine why that question would even be asked..

I asked because you said;

..which seems to include all kinds of yokes including marriage...

I thought you were seeing the light. You appear to acknowledge a relationship yoke can be more than marriage but appear to have a single understanding when it comes to this verse. I’m not implying you’re either right or wrong, just pointing out a fact.