Union With Christ

[Van]

The views being asserted by those denying positional sanctification - God transferring us into Christ spiritually and indwelling us - are not orthodox Baptist views.

When does our "union with Christ occur? When God puts us into Christ.
The "one" baptism is our spiritual baptism into Christ and indwelling of the Spirit of Christ.
Water baptism accomplishes nothing but getting us wet, it symbolizes our spiritual baptism into Christ.

No one was indwelt before Pentecost, so yes they were all spiritually dead before Pentecost, their union with Christ had not occurred.

Of course no one experienced the washing of regeneration before Christ shed His blood. Only "in Him" are we regenerated, born anew, justified, made righteous, made alive, and so forth. If God has not put us into Christ we are unsaved, and on that day He will say I never knew you.

 

[The Biblicist]

The views being asserted by those denying positional sanctification

The only one "asserting" is YOU! I provide biblical evidence within my posts. BTW I don't deny "positional sanctification" but I don't confuse it with subjective salvation either like you are doing.

- God transferring us into Christ spiritually and indwelling us - are not orthodox Baptist views.

Says who? you? lol!

 

[The Biblicist]

Let me break this down even more simple.

What does it mean to be "in the flesh" in contrast to being "in the Spirit"? The "flesh" is your identification with Adam - "in Adam". The "Spirit" is your identification with the Spirit of Christ - "in Christ"

How does one become "in the flesh"? They become "in the flesh" by being "BORN OF THE FLESH." How does one become "in the Spirit"? They become "in the Spirit" by being "BORN OF THE SPIRIT."

To be "in the Spirit" is to BORN of the Spirit and is to be INDWELT by the Spirit - Rom. 8:9

To be INDWELT by the Spirit IS to be in spiritual union with God as your spirit INSIDE YOUR BODY is what is being united to the Spirit of God - WHO IS GOD!

Hence, it is not the baptism in the Spirit by Christ that places one in Spiritual union with God but it is being BORN OF THE SPIRIT that places one in spiritual union with God.

 

[Iconoclast]

The Biblicist,

The word "baptism" can be metaphorically,

Light begins to dawn on B....

but it retains the idea of immersion. Israel was not immersed in water.

This should be a major clue.....They were identified with Moses and His message...as Spirit Baptism Identifies us In Christ Eternally.

However the passage through the red sea was a metaphorical immersion with reference to moses.

No....they were properly identified to be unto Him.....he is the type , The first Exodus is the Type....the eternal reality is all believers from all time are one IN Christ, the True Exodus.

The water of the dead sea was death
the waters of the flood were death to the ungodly
as the waters of death did not touch them.

 

[Iconoclast]

"The Biblicist,

And to use Biblicist format and style of commentary....here is His problem...he wants to blend the NT reality and that which goes on into eternity , with the OT types and shadows and try and force his view of "the church" into it...

In Contrast, the baptism in the Spirit is an Old Testament phenomena that occurs ONCE after a new institutional public “house of God” was COMPLETELY FINISHED when God sent fire down and then immersed and filled the house of God:

1. The Tabernacle - And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. – Ex.40:35
   
   Le 9:24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.
   
   
   
   
2. The Temple - 1 ¶ Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house. 2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house. And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glor y of the LORD upon the house, - 2 Chron. 7:1-3
   
   
   
3. The Church - ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

In 1 the tabernacle and 2 the temple we have physical places that God would use to meet with His people......

What Biblicist wiffs on is 3 the Church.

It is not a physical building made of would stone and fabric....it is individual living stones, who are individually a temple 1 cor 6....who in obedience to Jesus assemble corporately......

There was no one earthtly Holy place now.....There are local assemblies where the plural ye...assemble in local assemblies.....the ye...is plural....
The individual person is described as a temple, the assembled church is described as a temple...


it is not a place, but a people;
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Yes...Everyone of them.....in the body....

It is just that simple![/QUOTE]

 

[Iconoclast]

Union with Christ is not a union with a system of doctrine, nor with external religious influences, nor with the organized church, nor with the ideal man- but rather , with a personal, risen,living, omnipresent Lord.

J.W.Stewart...

 

[Iconoclast]

In Strongs systematic theology on pg 807...in the footnotes we read;
Nothing is said of one fold under the new dispensation Here is a unity, not of external organization, but of common life. Of this is the visible church is the consequence and expression.

But this Communion is not limited to the earth, it is perpetuated beyond death;
1thess 4:17..."so shall we ever be with the Lord".
Heb12:23- to the general assembly and church of the fiirstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to the God and Judge of all, and the spirits of just men made perfect.

Rev ,21 and 22....the city of God, the new Jerusalem, is the image of perfect society,as well as the intensity and fulness of life IN Christ.

The ordinances express the essence of ecclesiology-Union with Christ-

for BAPTISM symbolizes The incorporation of the believer in Christ....

 

[Iconoclast]

"The Biblicist,

There is no end of quotes that Iconoclast can give to support his error because this is the view of every universal invisible church scholar and hyper dispensationalist. He thinks by merely quoting men who agree with him that repudiates the scriptures that repudiate this theory. This is the same mentality of Roman catholics when they can't answer scriptures they begin quoting church father's and church scholars to overthrow plain scripture. Iconoclast cant' respond to scriptures so he no quotes uninspired men who are as ignorant of scriptures as he is.

Everyone who does not read and agree with Biblicist...are ignorant of scriptures...of course...

Look at this ignorant person;
https://www.rts.edu/jackson/faculty/bio.aspx?id=177

or another ignorant person;
https://bible.org/users/bob-deffinbaugh

 

[Iconoclast]

Let it clearly be understood. This is a debate between universal church advocates and local church only advocates. So Iconoclast can call on and quote from an innumberal host of universal church advocates who merely repeat his errors because they are the source of his error.

I could quote local church Bible scholars but it would only be met with ridicule whereas he can quote from his biased advocates and it is regarded as "scholarship" by those who already embrace that view.

In contrast, I simply appeal to the Word of God

You offered your case and you do not like that others see it different from you and other Landmarkers.
Your statements have not held up.

 

[The Biblicist]

You offered your case and you do not like that others see it different from you and other Landmarkers.
Your statements have not held up.

Have not held up in whose court? Yours? Please.......

 

[The Biblicist]

"The Biblicist,


Everyone who does not read and agree with Biblicist...are ignorant of scriptures...of course...

Look at this ignorant person;
https://www.rts.edu/jackson/faculty/bio.aspx?id=177

or another ignorant person;
https://bible.org/users/bob-deffinbaugh

The issue is not being "ignorant" but being theologically biased.

 

[The Biblicist]

Union with Christ is not a union with a system of doctrine, nor with external religious influences, nor with the organized church, nor with the ideal man- but rather , with a personal, risen,living, omnipresent Lord.

J.W.Stewart...

Yes, and it is LITERALLY by regeneration not by baptism in the Spirit and it is FIGURATIVELY by water baptism and it is METAPHORICALLY by being a "member" of the institutional ekklesia.

 

[The Biblicist]

"The Biblicist,

And to use Biblicist format and style of commentary....here is His problem...he wants to blend the NT reality and that which goes on into eternity , with the OT types and shadows and try and force his view of "the church" into it...

In Contrast, the baptism in the Spirit is an Old Testament phenomena that occurs ONCE after a new institutional public “house of God” was COMPLETELY FINISHED when God sent fire down and then immersed and filled the house of God:

1. The Tabernacle - And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. – Ex.40:35
   
   Le 9:24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.
   
   
   
   
2. The Temple - 1 ¶ Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house. 2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house. And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glor y of the LORD upon the house, - 2 Chron. 7:1-3
   
   
   
3. The Church - ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

In 1 the tabernacle and 2 the temple we have physical places that God would use to meet with His people......

What Biblicist wiffs on is 3 the Church.

It is not a physical building made of would stone and fabric....it is individual living stones, who are individually a temple 1 cor 6....who in obedience to Jesus assemble corporately......

There was no one earthtly Holy place now.....There are local assemblies where the plural ye...assemble in local assemblies.....the ye...is plural....
The individual person is described as a temple, the assembled church is described as a temple...


it is not a place, but a people;
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Yes...Everyone of them.....in the body....

It is just that simple!

[/QUOTE]

The institiutional ekklesia is where "all" of its members actually "gather together" in "one place" (Acts 2:1; 1 Cor. 11:17,19) consisting of "spiritual stones" (metaphor of physical persons that assemble) with PHYSICAL bodies as "members of Christ" (1 Cor. 6:17-19).

They are already regenerated/in spiritual union and water baptized BEFORE being "added" unto the ekklesia - Acts 2:40

 

[The Biblicist]

"The Biblicist,

And to use Biblicist format and style of commentary....here is His problem...he wants to blend the NT reality and that which goes on into eternity , with the OT types and shadows and try and force his view of "the church" into it...

The Old Testament Tabernacle and Temple were Old Testamnent houses for PUBLIC WORSHIP and were types of the NT. Ekklesia as a PUBLIC HOUSE OF WORSHIP. The Tabernacle was covered with material taken from LIVING animials while the Temple was built of STONES and together they foreshadowed the NT. Ekklesia which consisted of “LIVELY STONES” assembled as a spiritual house where “acceptable” sacrifices are offered up to God (1 Pet. 2:5).

The very phrase “the house of God” is found a total of 87 times in Scripture and its 85th occurrence is 1 Tim. 3:15:

These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. – 1 Tim. 3:15

In every single solitary case preceding 1 Tim. 3:15 (all 84 occurrences) it describes a public house of worship where a qualified ministry administered qualified ordinances and where the people of God assembled for singing and hearing of God’s Word.

In 1 Tim. 3:15 it is found in the context of qualifications for ministry in the public house of worship. It is described as a PLACE where the congregation assembles as Paul says “hoping to come unto thee shortly, But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself IN the house of God” just as the congregation at Jerusalem all met in ONE PLACE (“They were ALL in one accord IN ONE PLACE” – Acts 2:1) just as the congregation at Corinth met in ONE PLACE (“For first of all, when ye come together in the church,…20 When ye come together therefore into one place,” – 1 Cor. 11:18,20

It is impossible to assembly without a "place" where the gathering occurs or else there is no coming together.

He is writing to Timothy as the Pastor of the congregation at Ephesus which congregation would also meet in one place. The JEWISH trained Paul in the Old Testament Scriptures is writing to a JEWISH raised son of a Jewish mother and grandmother who trained him in the OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES where EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of the phrase “the house of God” always without exception refers to the public house of worship where a qualified ministry administer qualified ordinances and where the people of God came to a certain place (Deut. 12:5-12) to bring their tithes and offerings, and where songs and preaching of God’s Word occurred. The Jewish mind would not think of anything other than the public house of worship when they read or heard the phrase "the house of God."

Paul explicitly states that just as the Old Covenant had a public house of God located in this world and just as they had divine ordinances for divine services in that public house of God so does the New Covenant have such a house of God with divine ordinances (baptism, Lord’s Supper, qualified ministry, tithes and offerings, etc.)

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. – Heb. 9:1

And in the very next chapter he instructs them not to forsake the assembling of themselves together in their place of worship (heb. 10:25) and later instructs them to submit the qualified ministry in the house of public worship and uses Old Testament types to describe the public worship service under that public ministry (Heb. 13:7-17).

So for you to say there is no HOLY PLACE in the New Testament for public worship is absurd and false as Paul tells the Corinthians after he tell them when they gather the church together “in one place” says:

“What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God,” (1 Cor. 11:22)

And Paul tells Timothy as the Pastor of the congregation at Ephesus:

hoping to come unto thee shortly, But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself IN the house of God – 1 Tim. 3:14,15

You confuse the FAMILY OF GOD with the public house of Worship. You confuse INSTITUTIONAL IMMERSION in the Spirit and INDWELLING with INDIVIDUAL indwelling and immersion in water. In 1 Cor. 3:16 it is the SINGULAR “the temple of the Spirit” that consists of a PLURAL “ye” and that “ye” excludes Paul and all saints outside of that local body as he does not say “we”. In 1 Cor. 6:19 it is the INDIVIDUAL PHYSICAL HUMAN BODY that is the temple of the Holy Spirit and you confuse it with the singural metaphorical temple of God the public house of worship.

The formation of the SINGULAR TEMPLE of plural “ye” in 1 Cor. 3:16 was constituted not by the immersion in the Spirit but by ministers taking water baptized believers and organizing them into an church body and it is spelled out in no uncertain terms in 1 Cor. 3:5-14

For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 ¶ For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.

14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Nowhere does he say “we” are this husbandry, building or temple. Moreover, this temple can be “defiled” and that is not possible with spiritual union with God or salvation:

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Again, he does not say “we are” but “ye are” just as he later says “YE ARE the body of Christ and members in particular” (1 Cor. 12:28) not “we are” as he was not an individual member of that congregation but that congregation located at Corinth was "THE body of Christ" just as each congregation is a metaphorical body of Christ.

The baptism in the Spirit is an Old Testament phenomena that occurs ONCE after a new institutional public “house of God” was COMPLETELY FINISHED when God sent fire down and then immersed and filled the house of God:

1. The Tabernacle - And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. – Ex.40:35
   
   Le 9:24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.
   
   
   
   
2. The Temple - 1 ¶ Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house. 2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house. And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glor y of the LORD upon the house, - 2 Chron. 7:1-3
   
   
   
3. The Church - ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

 

[Yeshua1]

The institiutional ekklesia is where "all" of its members actually "gather together" in "one place" (Acts 2:1; 1 Cor. 11:17,19) consisting of "spiritual stones" (metaphor of physical persons that assemble) with PHYSICAL bodies as "members of Christ" (1 Cor. 6:17-19).

They are already regenerated/in spiritual union and water baptized BEFORE being "added" unto the ekklesia - Acts 2:40[/QUOTE]
All of thoise saved under the New Covenant belong to the True Church of Christ, the Body Universal right when sealed by the Spirit, before any Water Baptizing, correct?

 

[The Biblicist]

All of thoise saved under the New Covenant belong to the True Church of Christ, the Body Universal right when sealed by the Spirit, before any Water Baptizing, correct?

Please deal with the detailed evidence presented in my post. If you can refute it, then fine, but at least deal with it straight forward.

 

[Iconoclast]

The Biblicist,

The Old Testament Tabernacle and Temple were Old Testamnent houses for PUBLIC WORSHIP and were types of the NT. Ekklesia as a PUBLIC HOUSE OF WORSHIP. The Tabernacle was covered with material taken from LIVING animials while the Temple was built of STONES

These were physical buildings.......people went into them.
What made them a holy place was God would meet with them there.
In the sacrific.es and ordinances . It was outward and external and temporal.

While instructive in type.....then NT reality is internal, and eternal

and together they foreshadowed the NT. Ekklesia which consisted of “LIVELY STONES” assembled as a spiritual house where “acceptable” sacrifices are offered up to God (1 Pet. 2:5).

The very phrase “the house of God” is found a total of 87 times in Scripture and its 85th occurrence is 1 Tim. 3:15:

These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. – 1 Tim. 3:15

In every single solitary case preceding 1 Tim. 3:15 (all 84 occurrences) it describes a public house of worship where a qualified ministry administered qualified ordinances and where the people of God assembled for singing and hearing of God’s Word.

Most of your post describes an assembled assembly...local...I have no problem with that.

In 1 Tim. 3:15 it is found in the context of qualifications for ministry in the public house of worship. It is described as a PLACE where the congregation assembles as Paul says “hoping to come unto thee shortly, But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself IN the house of God” just as the congregation at Jerusalem all met in ONE PLACE (“They were ALL in one accord IN ONE PLACE” – Acts 2:1) just as the congregation at Corinth met in ONE PLACE (“For first of all, when ye come together in the church,…20 When ye come together therefore into one place,” – 1 Cor. 11:18,20

Yes the assembly assembled.......in one place....that could be a house, a building, a field, on the beach, on the mountain.......because the real holy place is heaven itself.

He is writing to Timothy as the Pastor of the congregation at Ephesus which congregation would also meet in one place. The JEWISH trained Paul in the Old Testament Scriptures is writing to a JEWISH raised son of a Jewish mother and grandmother who trained him in the OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES where EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of the phrase “the house of God” always without exception refers to the public house of worship where a qualified ministry administer qualified ordinances and where the people of God came to a certain place (Deut. 12:5-12) to bring their tithes and offerings, and where songs and preaching of God’s Word occurred.

Of course it did...they had physical external places where they were to assemble.

Paul explicitly states that just as the Old Covenant had a public house of God located in this world and just as they had divine ordinances for divine services in that public house of God so does the New Covenant have such a house of God with divine ordinances (baptism, Lord’s Supper, qualified ministry, tithes and offerings, etc.)

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. – Heb. 9:1

Yes....a worldly sanctuary

And in the very next chapter he instructs them not to forsake the assembling of themselves together in their place of worship (heb. 10:25

)

You add the phrase.......in their place of worship
There is no earthly designated place, it is the people themselves assembled.

So for you to say there is no HOLY PLACE in the New Testament for public worship is absurd and false as Paul tells the Corinthians after he tell them when they gather the church together “in one place” says:

I said no Earthly Holy Place........do not twist it...here is what I actually said

What Biblicist wiffs on is 3 the Church.

It is not a physical building made of would stone and fabric....it is individual living stones, who are individually a temple 1 cor 6....who in obedience to Jesus assemble corporately......

There was no one earthtly Holy place now.....There are local assemblies where the plural ye...assemble in local assemblies.....the ye...is plural....
The individual person is described as a temple, the assembled church is described as a temple...


it is not a place, but a people;
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Yes...Everyone of them.....in the body....

It is just that simple!
It is the people who are said to be baptized. As we worship it as as part of local assemblies....Spirit baptism unites every elect person into this one general assembly spoken of in vs.23
The Holy Place is in Heaven
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 

[The Biblicist]

The Biblicist,




These were physical buildings.......people went into them.
What made them a holy place was God would meet with them there.
In the sacrific.es and ordinances . It was outward and external and temporal.

While instructive in type.....then NT reality is internal, and eternal

Tell me how can the ekklesia you are a baptized member assemble without assembling in a PLACE? You are simply ignoring Acts 2:1 "in one place" and ignoring 1 Cor. 11:18,20 "in one place"! To say it assemblies in heaven is silly. For example, when is your church assembling in heaven next Sunday and please give directions on how to get there?????

Assembling and place are inseparable as no two people can assemble without assembling in a WORLDLY LOCATED PLACE - impossible to do without a geographical place.

Your PHYSICAL BODY is "the member of Christ" and it your PHYSICAL body that ASSEMBLES and by neccessity in a PHYSICAL location. Your born again Spirit does not enter into heaven but is confined to your body - this assembly assembles only on earth.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Biblicist,




These were physical buildings.......people went into them.
What made them a holy place was God would meet with them there.
In the sacrific.es and ordinances . It was outward and external and temporal.

While instructive in type.....then NT reality is internal, and eternal

No, the New Testament is VISIBLE PHYSICAL and LOCATED both consisting of INTERNAL and EXTERNAL realities.

The congregation at Corinth consisted of PHYSICAL HUMAN BODIES that PHYSICALLY assembled together in a PHYSICAL location - 1 Cor. 6:17; 11:18-20

 

[The Biblicist]

Most of your post describes an assembled assembly...local...I have no problem with that.

No, my post describes the consistent use of the phrase "the house of God" and it is NEVER used in either the New or Old Testament for anything other than in the context of a PUBLIC HOUSE OF WORSHIP where there is a PUBLIC QUALIFIED ministry, adminitering PUBLIC QUALIFIED ordinances where the PUBLIC preaching of God's work occurs among the ASSEMBLED people of God.