Unity or conformity: What happened to respecting diversity?

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Some interesting thoughts that I have observed:

1. The Dems and liberals have spent the past year and a half calling Bush stupid, advancing looney conspiracy theories, saying that Bush knew about 9-11 and lied to get us into war. They have spent all of this time deriding and dividing the nation with fear. They told the young they were going to be drafted. They told the old they were going to starve. They told black people they were going to be disenfranchised. They told those with dibilitating diseases that Bush was the one keeping them sick. They pitted our allies against the European Community.

2. Now, that they have lost, they want to lecture us on uniting the nation that they divided and act like it was all Bush's fault. At the same time, they blame their loss not on the incompetence of the Kerry campaign to move to the center and distance themselves from the bitter looney left, but on the stupidity of us rednecls in the South who blindly followed Bush because we are braindead religious people. They don't get it.

3. It seems to me that the contradiction in these two messages goes to the point that what the Libs really want is conformity, not unity. They would like for us to abandon our vision, our message, and our agenda. They don't respect our diversity, but demand that we respect theirs as if it were a civil right. They don't want unity. They don't want compromise. They want us to surrender.

Well, my answer to that is not on your life. We won. You loss. If you really want unity, then get behind the President and America's elected vision for this country and put away your divisive hatred.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Dragoon68]

You're absolutely correct that confomity is high on the liberal agenda. The meaning of tolerance has been perverted to acceptance, endorsement, and support. Many have decided that it is the role of government, schools, and business to mold the thinking of its citizens, students, and workers. They desire to replace the family and the church so that their ideas can be made the norm and all opposition can be crushed by law, by teaching, and by the pay check. They do this in the name of tolerance but they are far less tolerant, in the true sense, than those who they seek to subdue.

We can also count on the fact that there will be little unity over the result of our elections unless a whole lot more people change their minds about what they expect from government and, in many cases, drastically adjust their basic values. We will continue to agrue our differences until Jesus comes again!

However, thanks to an outspoken few, we will never surrender Joseph! Keep spreading the truth brother!

Patrick

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Some interesting thoughts that I have observed:

1. The Dems and liberals have spent the past year and a half calling Bush stupid, advancing looney conspiracy theories, saying that Bush knew about 9-11 and lied to get us into war.

The first one, yes, but your count is off by about four years. The second one - there are looney conspiracy theories on all sides, mainly the fringes. Bush found out about 9-ll after it happened and he lied to get us into the Iraqi war, not the Afghani war.

They have spent all of this time deriding and dividing the nation with fear.

That's an out and out lie. For the first year and a half after 9-11 there was solidarity not only within the nation, but for a large portion of the world. Bush squandered the good-will with his Iraqi war.

They told the young they were going to be drafted.

It's foolish to deny the possibility. Already, National Guardsmen and Army Reservists have been calling the stop-loss order a "back-door draft". Our troops are dangerously thin in Iraq due to the bloody occupation. Of course, if the current economic recovery remains "jobless", perhaps we'll get enough economic draftees to suffice.

They told the old they were going to starve.

Not just or primarily the old. Meals-on-wheels in NYC have gone from serving 7 hot meals a week to 5 plus 2 frozen. Food banks report record lines. It's not the current crop of old folks at risk as much as the up and coming one - the social security surplus was spent on tax cuts, mainly to the wealthy. Bush has promised to further decimate it. It's really not looking good.

They told black people they were going to be disenfranchised.

Yes, based on the elections four years ago and, surprise, surprise - of the people who were disenfranchised, a disproportionate number were black people.

They told those with dibilitating diseases that Bush was the one keeping them sick.

No, that's not true. People with dibilitating diseases and no insurance or inadequate insurance already know what kind of treatment they receive. Some diseases have no cure, although the stemcell research holds out some hope that they will have in the future.

Bush has not addressed national healthcare with any success.

They pitted our allies against the European Community.

Bush was the one who did that - the Dems and liberals were in no position to do that had they even wanted to, so that charge is to laugh.

2. Now, that they have lost, they want to lecture us on uniting the nation that they divided and act like it was all Bush's fault.

Not all, but he and his have their share of the blame.

At the same time, they blame their loss not on the incompetence of the Kerry campaign to move to the center and distance themselves from the bitter looney left, but on the stupidity of us rednecls in the South who blindly followed Bush because we are braindead religious people.

Obviously, you have not been listening very well to their wailings.

3. It seems to me that the contradiction in these two messages goes to the point that what the Libs really want is conformity, not unity.

I don't think you've proven your case at all.

They would like for us to abandon our vision, our message, and our agenda.

Only in as far as any group that thinks itself correct thinks that others should agree. That's human nature.

They don't respect our diversity, but demand that we respect theirs as if it were a civil right.

How do they disrespect your diversity? Are they trying to take away your civil rights? I don't get what you mean here.

They don't want unity. They don't want compromise. They want us to surrender.

What in the world do you mean by "unity", "compromise" and "surrender"? Do you want "unity"? Are you willing to "compromise"? It's a bit odd for the losers to demand the winners surrender; I don't believe that that has actually happenned. This all reads like projection.

Well, my answer to that is not on your life. We won. You loss. If you really want unity, then get behind the President and America's elected vision for this country and put away your divisive hatred.

There, you see? You are the one demanding unconditional surrender. You are demanding that the others give up their diversity to achieve unity. We are not the ones with divisve hatred.

Joseph Botwinick [/QB][/QUOTE]

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Joseph,

Your premise is very one-sided. You accuse the Democrats of making exaggerated accusations against Republicans. Fair enough.

Ever listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity?

 

[The Galatian]

They both do it. But the mindless partisans on both sides can't see anything but what the opponent does.

 

[Roy]

Racial and sexually perverted diversity are the only types of diversity that count with democrats. Of course they don't want to include the Caucasion race as deserving any recognition.

I really think that we need to push to have "Caucasoid History Month."

Roy

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by Roy:
Racial and sexually perverted diversity are the only types of diversity that count with democrats.

Are you including all women in your "sexually perverted" category? Or do you simply not object to gender diversity in the same degree as you do to racial?

Of course they don't want to include the Caucasion race as deserving any recognition.

Generally, that's because the Caucasion race doesn't need special recognition as it is still considered the norm by the majority Caucasion population.

I really think that we need to push to have "Caucasoid History Month."

If you want to limit it to a single month, what history are you going to teach the rest of the year? That might be an interesting idea, teaching South American Indigenous history, North American Native American history, Inuit history, Indian Sub-Continental history, Middle Eastern history, Oriental history, etc. When I was growing up, we got a single semester of native american, "Indian" as it was known at the time, history in fourth grade and that was it for the whole 12 years. We were never taught a blessed thing about East Indian history; we were taught that paper, gunpowder and the compass came from China but that's about it.

So maybe you're right, maybe "Caucasoid" history should be taught for one month only during the year, and the rest of the world history the rest of the year.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

I think that what Roy is objecting to is teaching and/or recognizing history through the lens of race. I agree.

 

[Daisy]

When the "regular" American history books recognise the contributions of "irregular" Americans, there will be no need. There was a reason for special history. Have we reached that point yet?

I wouldn't mind history taught a bit less insularly.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

I think that the average history book is probably alreads "overcompensated". Minorities had realtively fewer significant contributions, since they were often unfairly oppressed. That ain't good, but it's history.

 

[The Galatian]

There is no "Caucasoid race". You mean ethnic groups of European origin, perhaps?

There are Irish, Italian, Polish, German, (list goes on for a very long time) advocacy groups.

We even have national holidays, like St. Patrick's day and Columbus Day which are holidays for them.

I guess we could have a "European History" month, but it seems rather pointless, since our schools teach (and properly so, given that the largest cultural entity in the US is European) history from a primarily Eurocentric viewpoint.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
There is no "Caucasoid race". You mean ethnic groups of European origin, perhaps?

There are three basic races of humans: Caucasoid (such as Europeans and non-latin Spanish), Negroid (such Africans, Atlantic Islanders, and Aborigines), and Mongoloid (Asians, Orientals, Pacific Islanders, Eskimoes, Latin Americans, and Native Americans).

Most people are at least somewhat a mix of more than one race. In addition, those three basic races have subraces as well, such as the examples listed above.

 

[Enoch]

Well, my answer to that is not on your life. We won. You loss. If you really want unity, then get behind the President and America's elected vision for this country and put away your divisive hatred.

AMEN, AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!
You are right on Joseph

 

[poncho]

What exactly did you win Joseph?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

The conservatives won the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, The Marriage Ammendments in 11 States. The GOP won, the DEMS lost.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[poncho]

Thats very impressive I must say and not one democrat or liberal complaining that the vote was tampered with...amazing!

 

[poncho]

BTW Bush did lie to get us to go to war with Iraq. Donald Rumsfeld lied, Tony Blair lied and fox news beat the drums of war and fear so we the people would see no other choice, but to go to war with Iraq. (There's an imminent threat of mushroom clouds on the horizon from Iraq) oh brother...then it got boiled down to well Saddam was a bad boy and we have to get rid of him...thats a far cry from imminent mushroom clouds. Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a bad guy and he did some very ugly things to his people, but he was okay with the US while he played the game. Bottom line here is Bush lied and now people are killing and being killed because he lied that doesn't make him a great man or great leader...that makes him a liar and a liar that will continue to lie to keep the profits moving along for his oil buddies and global corporate friends.

Osama Bin Laden and his Alqaeda buddies were creations of our (American) foriegn policies. We were in Afghanistan building them and educating the kiddies on the finer points of being Islamic terrorists and gearing them up for war with Russia before Russia even invaded, the Taliban were our own creation as well. It's all history Joseph not conspiracy. There is a difference between history and conspiracy theories ya know. You should take some time and look into this history it is very well documented all over the internet, Rush and Hannity aren't going to tell you this (their shills) you'll have to look for yourself like millions of other people have done and are doing everyday.

Bill Clinton could have had Usama (CIA spelling) handed over by Sudan but he said no, George bush had opportunities to nab him before 911 but he said no...I'll check into it after my vacation and there is much documented evidence that points to Bush hindering FBI investigations into the Bin Ladens and flying them out of the US while the rest of the flights in or out were grouned.

It's all history and it is well documented whether you admit it or not.

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by poncho:
Thats very impressive I must say and not one democrat or liberal complaining that the vote was tampered with...amazing!

Well, now that you mention it, there was that one interesting county in Ohio, Franklin County, where Bush received 4,258 out of 638 votes...

Yes, there was fraud on both sides (I had heard that my own NY won the prize this year!) and the Diebold machines performed abysmally (some suspect more than simple kinks), but it's way too soon to say that it affected the outcome. If it did not affect the outcome, then any discussion would be viewed as losers whining by the triumphant, but this is something that needs to be addressed eventually.

If anyone is interested, I suggest they check out both BlackboxVoting.com and BlackBoxVoting.org

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Poncho,

You are so very funny. Luckily, it didn't take very long now did it?

You have never heard of the DU boards, have you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Enoch]

Just say NO to liberalism