University of Oklahoma Fraternity Closed After Video of Racist Chant

[matt wade]

A publicly funded university shouldn't have policies that limit free speech.

 

[Salty]

While I don't agree with the statements made by the students, this may set a dangerous precedent.

Will other student groups get in trouble for voicing their beliefs about homosexuals? I can see Boren utilizing the same statements in that instance.

Matt, you beat me to it.
Lets take it a step further -
We tell someone they are going to Hell for not being a Christian. Is that hate speech.
We tell a female she is showing too much flesh. Is that hate speech.
We tell a roommate, we don't want him playing a X rated video in the dorm room. Is that hate speech.

Where will it all end.

Now, outright lies, slander, ect is one things. Opinions is another.
Especially, as Matt said, - at a public university.

 

[Gina B]

You are seriously comparing people chanting about black people not being acceptable and being lynched to telling a girl she's dressed to skimpy?

THAT is your fear of what will happen if people aren't allowed to group together and chant slurs about blacks while referencing lynching?

I think you're letting fear take the place of common sense. We live in a time where all of our freedoms are threatened, and that is scary, but hating people based on the color of their skin and expressing it by refusing to accept such people and talking positively about lynching is wrong. I think you know that. Don't let the fear of what will happen if you stand up against wrong stop you from doing what is right.

 

[robustheologian]

They didn't "only" close the frat. They have until midnight tonight to pack up and leave the college. President Boren did a live conference earlier and was very clear about where he stands - he did a great job.
Now please pray for the safety of students and staff. There are many "white power" types in Oklahoma. When people are this blatantly filled with hatred, scary things tend to ensue. :-(

Prayer is necessary. Hatred is the cause of anyone verbally degrading someone because of gender, race, or religion. If anyone would say those things, it's not out their sphere to act on those things.

 

[Salty]

I'm not saying those things are morally correct, but I would rather they say what they mean; at least I know where they stand.

 

[blackbird]

Matt, you beat me to it.
Lets take it a step further -
We tell someone they are going to Hell for not being a Christian. Is that hate speech.
We tell a female she is showing too much flesh. Is that hate speech.
We tell a roommate, we don't want him playing a X rated video in the dorm room. Is that hate speech.

Where will it all end.

Now, outright lies, slander, ect is one things. Opinions is another.
Especially, as Matt said, - at a public university.

I agree----Salty has a point!!

 

[Gina B]

I'm not saying those things are morally correct, but I would rather they say what they mean; at least I know where they stand.

I feel the exact same way. Most people are ashamed enough of their sin to not go as far as this group though, which is probably why so many of the kids on campus are shocked.

I have never run a large facility, but it would have been interesting to see this handled different thus far, though it may not have been possible for security reasons. What if they would have called a meeting and had those involved stand in front of the other students and converse about racism? Have them confront and face their actions and explain what brought them to that point. That might accomplish more than just having them relocate and continue on with nothing but their newly discovered knowledge to not expose themselves so blatantly.

 

[Salty]

.. but it would have been interesting to see this handled different thus far, though it may not have been possible for security reasons. What if they would have called a meeting and had those involved stand in front of the other students and converse about racism? Have them confront and face their actions and explain what brought them to that point. That might accomplish more than just having them relocate and continue on with nothing but their newly discovered knowledge to not expose themselves so blatantly.

Excellent -much better than expelling them.

 

[Zaac]

Matt, you beat me to it.
Lets take it a step further -
We tell someone they are going to Hell for not being a Christian. Is that hate speech.

The way some people say it, it definitely could be perceived as hate speech. But hate speech isn't covered by most student handbooks.

We tell a female she is showing too much flesh. Is that hate speech.

I think you're being a bit absurd.

We tell a roommate, we don't want him playing a X rated video in the dorm room. Is that hate speech.

Does the school have a policy against you speaking to another roommate?

Where will it all end.

With all the bigoted folks kicked out of public and private schools because they all receive some sort of federal aid and deal in interstate commerce.

Now, outright lies, slander, ect is one things. Opinions is another.
Especially, as Matt said, - at a public university.

Public universities receive public tax dollars and are thus subject to federal discrimination laws.

 

[Zaac]

I feel the exact same way. Most people are ashamed enough of their sin to not go as far as this group though, which is probably why so many of the kids on campus are shocked.

I have never run a large facility, but it would have been interesting to see this handled different thus far, though it may not have been possible for security reasons. What if they would have called a meeting and had those involved stand in front of the other students and converse about racism? Have them confront and face their actions and explain what brought them to that point. That might accomplish more than just having them relocate and continue on with nothing but their newly discovered knowledge to not expose themselves so blatantly.

Gina I don't think it would ever work. It would be a PR nightmare. Donors and alumni would have a fit .

There's nothing to talk about. There's been a gross violation of the University's conduct code as well as federal violation of Civil Rights Laws.

This could have gotten real ugly really fast if the University President and the National Chapter CEO didn't take the action that they did.

This is the sort of thing where it's probably gonna be pretty difficult for anyone associated with SAE on that campus to even stay in class this semester.

It's just sad.

 

[righteousdude2]

So am I to understand that these students do not have the right to free speech?

How soon we forget the crowds marching down our streets chanting: What do we want? DEAD COPS .... When do we want it: NOW! And they were not chanting this about black cops as we found out when two of NYPD's finest (neither were black) were gunned down in their car.

Not that this frat was right, because what they did was dispicible, disgusting and not a representation of the
America I love, but ne:wavey:ither were the anti-cop crowds all around this country.

Another thing. Last week a group of white college kids were picketing while chained to each other blocking a bridge. They were all arrested once freed from their elaborate chained to trash cans of cement. BUT, no one in law enforcement did anything to get the throngs of angry anti-cop crowds off the public streets. And the few times arrests were made, it was token in comparison to all white crowds marching and protesting in our streets.

I have to ask WHY???

 

[righteousdude2]

A publicly funded university shouldn't have policies that limit free speech.

Here, here! In Cali, AKA the Left Coast, our liberal leaning UC system universities are allowed to say and do nearly anything they want. In fact it surprised me that admin stopped UCI ASB from banning the stars and stripes from the student lounge. That was a bold act on both sides, and I halfway expected the ban to stand.

 

[righteousdude2]

You are seriously comparing people chanting about black people not being acceptable and being lynched to telling a girl she's dressed to skimpy?

THAT is your fear of what will happen if people aren't allowed to group together and chant slurs about blacks while referencing lynching?

I think you're letting fear take the place of common sense. We live in a time where all of our freedoms are threatened, and that is scary, but hating people based on the color of their skin and expressing it by refusing to accept such people and talking positively about lynching is wrong. I think you know that. Don't let the fear of what will happen if you stand up against wrong stop you from doing what is right.

You are correct about losing our freedoms ... as a city in Florida (Lake Worth) is trying to pass a law requiring churches to have a license to "pray!"

We are entering scary times. Even so Lord Jesus, come!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Here is what the good young white boys were shouting over and over and over .... and some of you are defending them.

“There will never be a nigger SAE. There will never be a nigger SAE . You can hang him from a tree, but he will never sign with me. There will never be a nigger SAE.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/10/oklahoma-s-racist-frat-is-very-not-ok.html

 

[Sapper Woody]

People keep bringing up freedom of speech. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the ability to speak out against the government with no gubernatorial repercussions. In most states, it's actually illegal to cuss in public. Again, freedom of speech is not the ability to say whatever you want. It's protection from government persecution for someone disagreeing with them.

 

[InTheLight]

People keep bringing up freedom of speech. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is the ability to speak out against the government with no gubernatorial repercussions. In most states, it's actually illegal to cuss in public. Again, freedom of speech is not the ability to say whatever you want. It's protection from government persecution for someone disagreeing with them.

Very nicely stated clarification of an oft misunderstood term. Next up : Censorship.

 

[Salty]

Here is what the good young white boys were shouting over and over and over .... and some of you are defending them.

and if that is what they want - they should be allowed.

Again, by the statement being made public - at least everyone knows where they stand.

 

[Don]

and if that is what they want - they should be allowed.

Again, by the statement being made public - at least everyone knows where they stand.

Agreed.

But should the national fraternity and the school have an option to say "these people don't represent us and our beliefs," thus giving them the option to shut down this particular fraternity?

 

[Don]

How soon we forget the crowds marching down our streets chanting: What do we want? DEAD COPS .... When do we want it: NOW! And they were not chanting this about black cops as we found out when two of NYPD's finest (neither were black) were gunned down in their car.

Not that this frat was right, because what they did was dispicible, disgusting and not a representation of the
America I love, but ne:wavey:ither were the anti-cop crowds all around this country.

Another thing. Last week a group of white college kids were picketing while chained to each other blocking a bridge. They were all arrested once freed from their elaborate chained to trash cans of cement. BUT, no one in law enforcement did anything to get the throngs of angry anti-cop crowds off the public streets. And the few times arrests were made, it was token in comparison to all white crowds marching and protesting in our streets.

I have to ask WHY???

So two wrongs make a right?

 

[Zaac]

Agreed.

But should the national fraternity and the school have an option to say "these people don't represent us and our beliefs," thus giving them the option to shut down this particular fraternity?

Absolutely. As with the students and their university admission agreement to abide by the University Code of Conduct and Student Handbook, all fraternity/sorority chapters agree to abide by certain national chapter rules and oversight by the national chapters.

Like athletes have a clause in their contracts that covers behavior detrimental to the sport, these groups have a similar thing and can summarily cancel a chapter.