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Unpaid pastors?
- Thread starter Ben W
- Start date
Not to pile on ... but well ... to pile on, I am sure there are pastors that on days would to earn a living like "the rest of [you]." I konw there are days I would love to punch a time clock, and go home and leave work. But as a pastor, you never get to leave it.
I agree with you brother, my point is -- what is the real reason for our pastors & church-workers nowadays to be in the ministries? What does motive US to serve? Do we serve God because He will bless? or Something else which have a cause more than our life?
There's no such STEP-BY-STEP how you are called by God to be a pastor or preacher. But in every heart of each person should have the VISION and BURDEN that burns inside out to fulfill our calling.
How could we think of our compensation while there are many people weeping and saying 'no man cared for my soul' Ps 142:4 You do not need to be a pastor but a person saved by grace to respond to their needs.
To my mind, one becomes a pastor because he can do nothing else. There is something compelling about it. I am not talking about qualifications to do other things. I am talking about that inner sense or driving force. I am a fully qualified architect, and used it by times to support myself whilst pastoring, but the "call" to ministry would override everything else.
Having said that, I also believe that a man is worthy of support by the church, so that he can give his all to the work and not have to trouble about where his next meal is coming from.
The bottom line is this: If a man can do anything else as his occupation, then do it. The ministry requires more than mere qualification.
Cheers,
Jim
Having said that, I also believe that a man is worthy of support by the church, so that he can give his all to the work and not have to trouble about where his next meal is coming from.
The bottom line is this: If a man can do anything else as his occupation, then do it. The ministry requires more than mere qualification.
Cheers,
Jim
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
I think you hit the nail on the head!
Bro. James Reed
New Member
I guess the Primitive Baptists have only a few ministers then.
There are only a handful of pastors who do not have secular employment and are not retired.
It seems to me that those who can be a pastor AND also hold secular employment meet all of the qualifications of their calling and also are not a burden to their church.
Sorry Jim. I didn't mean to jump on you too much, but those last couple of lines you wrote sounded a tad antagonistic to me.
I don't think you would be too surprised to think about all of the pastors of the last few centuries who not only pastored their church, and many times churches, very effectively, but also held a "job" as a farmer.
Were those pastors of years gone by any less effective or less involved because they worked a job, and farming IS a job, aside from their pastorate?
There are only a handful of pastors who do not have secular employment and are not retired.
It seems to me that those who can be a pastor AND also hold secular employment meet all of the qualifications of their calling and also are not a burden to their church.
Sorry Jim. I didn't mean to jump on you too much, but those last couple of lines you wrote sounded a tad antagonistic to me.
I don't think you would be too surprised to think about all of the pastors of the last few centuries who not only pastored their church, and many times churches, very effectively, but also held a "job" as a farmer.
Were those pastors of years gone by any less effective or less involved because they worked a job, and farming IS a job, aside from their pastorate?
Old Regular, when I was at the seminary in New Orleans, the Assoc of Divinity in Pastoral Ministries program consisted of nothing but folks who worked full time jobs and careers when suddenly plucked out of them by the Hand of God.
I do understand waht you are saying and I will side with you on one point... there were some who graduated from high school, went to college for four years, graduated, then went to seminary in the M.Div department and didnt have the slightest clue of what life was like. They became pastors and were unable to counsel in many areas. Most were not that bad off, having worked through college, but the few that had everything paid the whole way, those guys are the ones that got slapped in the faced by LIFE when they became pastors.
I do understand waht you are saying and I will side with you on one point... there were some who graduated from high school, went to college for four years, graduated, then went to seminary in the M.Div department and didnt have the slightest clue of what life was like. They became pastors and were unable to counsel in many areas. Most were not that bad off, having worked through college, but the few that had everything paid the whole way, those guys are the ones that got slapped in the faced by LIFE when they became pastors.
Jim1999... I have told people the same thing over and over. They say,, Tim, you are an experienced and educated electyrician, why dont you get a job with the power company?
My answer,,simply because something inside of me says NO.
It's weird. I'd love to have another dog, but something inside of me says NO.
Being called to the ministry does override everything else you might be able to do.
tim
My answer,,simply because something inside of me says NO.
It's weird. I'd love to have another dog, but something inside of me says NO.
Being called to the ministry does override everything else you might be able to do.
tim
What slapped me in the face is when I realized at how poor so many leaders in churches were. I realized that so many have never been leaders in the real world and didn't have a clue about spiritual things nor about leadership. Before I went to seminary I had graduated from college paying my own way, had led discipleship and evangelism groups in the church and in a parachurch organization, had worked for the largest business of its nature as a manager in the US, had my own business and knew what life was like in business. As a kid I grew up on a dairy farm. What I did not realize is how lazy some of the leaders in a numbers of churches can be. God's work does not have time for lazy folks to sit by and sip coffee and just chat the day away. In one church I pastored their idea of evangelism was to sip on coffee at the local hang out. What they realized after awhile is that more people were coming to Christ than in the history of the church because someone was knocking on doors each week while they were playing golf and sipping on coffee.
I am convinced that nobody should ever be given any position until they have proven themself by discipling at least one person. Those who disciple others know what it is like to win people to Christ and disciple them. They know what proven leadership looks like.
I am convinced that nobody should ever be given any position until they have proven themself by discipling at least one person. Those who disciple others know what it is like to win people to Christ and disciple them. They know what proven leadership looks like.
My main point was that the call to ministry is a compelling force regardless of what you do. I was not a minister by my choice. There were a host of things I wanted to do and I did them well. The thing was, I could not escape ministry, then nor now in full retirement at 78 years of age.
Remember, our blessed Lord trained for 30 years for a 3-year ministry. We can do no less.
Having experienced the PB's in England, who actually directed me toward ministry, I know what it is to have dedicated men given to ministry (unpaid)whilst working full time jobs, often as professionals in medicine and such positions.
My argument is that the labourer is worthy of his hire, so saith the word, and it must be his choice to accept or reject remuneration in ministry. I had a drafting table in every office I held throughout my ministry. Some men require more time to prepare a sermon than others and to hold an outside job would rob them of the time needed to best serve the Lord...in my opinion.
Early on, I trained my mind to think sermon is everything I did. I was never without a pad and pencil available, and used them.
Cheers,
Jim
Remember, our blessed Lord trained for 30 years for a 3-year ministry. We can do no less.
Having experienced the PB's in England, who actually directed me toward ministry, I know what it is to have dedicated men given to ministry (unpaid)whilst working full time jobs, often as professionals in medicine and such positions.
My argument is that the labourer is worthy of his hire, so saith the word, and it must be his choice to accept or reject remuneration in ministry. I had a drafting table in every office I held throughout my ministry. Some men require more time to prepare a sermon than others and to hold an outside job would rob them of the time needed to best serve the Lord...in my opinion.
Early on, I trained my mind to think sermon is everything I did. I was never without a pad and pencil available, and used them.
Cheers,
Jim
Chad Whiteley
Member
The Interstate and Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association (also called Faithway Baptists) do not pay their pastors a salary. They believe they should live by faith, and are paid only on freewill designated offerings. I would hardly call them unpaid, most of them make much more than I do in the ministry....
David Michael Harris
Active Member
Is there a pay scale for pastors, not being one I have always wondered how much a pastor earns.
Earns maybe the wrong word?
David
Earns maybe the wrong word?
David
David Michael Harris
Active Member
I would think pastors are under enough strees without adding to it, sounds very challenging to me.
Ben, they do not have a website, and there is very little information online about the association. Here are a few items at which you can look. Hope this helps.
Clear Branch Baptist Church
IFLMBA - from Wikipedia
GA Baptist History (minor mention)
Landmark Missionary Baptist Association of Quebec
Both, I would assume. The faith of the people to have the resources to give in a freewill offering. The faith of the pastor and his family that God would supply their needs through such an offering. This method is not unknown. IIRC, it is the method Georg Mueller stepped out on.
alexander284
Well-Known Member
Jehovah's Witnesses do not pay their "elders" (i.e. "pastors") who serve.
They are expected to hold full-time jobs (no exceptions).
But, believe me, they don't "get some idea of what life is like" by doing it!
Chad Whiteley
Member
Sorry for the delay. I did not know anyone had replied to my post. I actually had made an attempt to create an unofficial website for them. They sell some Sunday School material (which actually almost harmonizes with my own doctrines.) But, the maintenance of another website was just too difficult.
In any case, I have never actually been to one of their church services. I stopped by two churches in Arkansas (on off hours) and found the buildings to be run-down and in need of repairs. I spoke to one missionary-pastor, who also worked as a teacher in Mena. He was very friendly. The other pastor I attempted to contact was not so friendly.
For some reason, I have been fascinated by this group of people. Even I do not know why. I have no idea why they have such a limited web presence. But they do publish a paper (the Voice of Faith), and have a Mississippi Riverboat ministry where they preach from a boat up and down the Mississippi.
Apparently the churches in Mississippi and Alabama are much more well maintained than the ones in Arkansas.
In any case, I have never actually been to one of their church services. I stopped by two churches in Arkansas (on off hours) and found the buildings to be run-down and in need of repairs. I spoke to one missionary-pastor, who also worked as a teacher in Mena. He was very friendly. The other pastor I attempted to contact was not so friendly.
For some reason, I have been fascinated by this group of people. Even I do not know why. I have no idea why they have such a limited web presence. But they do publish a paper (the Voice of Faith), and have a Mississippi Riverboat ministry where they preach from a boat up and down the Mississippi.
Apparently the churches in Mississippi and Alabama are much more well maintained than the ones in Arkansas.
Chad Whiteley
Member
BTW, If anyone is curious about their doctrinal stands, I do have their confession of faith, and can post it. But I think I would start another thread, cause it is totally unrelated.