Unqualified???

[Salty]

In another thread it was stated:

In our big church, we don't have any qualified men willing to be deacons, so we have unqualified ones, new converts or divorced and remarried men . The qualified ones, won't deal with the pastors temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way. We also have grown weary in trying to mature him. It's just easier to watch him cause disaster after disaster and then have to fix them himself. (Usually his wife ends up having to fix them, she is a precious lady) My kids love the youth group, so I can put up with the pastors nonsense. It's actually pretty entertaining at times.
"Ain't my problem" has become my usual response.

Interesting comments - So three issues
1) If you have no qualified men to be an elder or deacon - do you:
leave the position empty or put in unqualified men?

2) If qualified men will not deal with the pastor as needed -
(assuming it is an elder led church) how do you replace such elders and/or pastors

3) If you are not an elder (in an elder led church) what responsibilities do you have to
insist on changes.

 

[Reynolds]

In another thread it was stated:


Interesting comments - So three issues
1) If you have no qualified men to be an elder or deacon - do you:
leave the position empty or put in unqualified men?

2) If qualified men will not deal with the pastor as needed -
(assuming it is an elder led church) how do you replace such elders and/or pastors

3) If you are not an elder (in an elder led church) what responsibilities do you have to
insist on changes.

1. The positions are filled.
2. By the Bilaws, he could be voted out by a simple majority vote at a regular or called business meeting. The Church is only 4 years old. He hasva kind of cult following among the new converts that would make that hard. They don't know that he is as lost on doctrines and hermeneutics as a goose in a hail storm. I don't have a desire to vote him out. I just let him do his thing and I do mine. We are good friends away from church, but at church we agree that we are going to disagree on about everything. He can't baffle me with his bull crap, so he gave up trying.
I have no desire to change him and he will not change me.
3.I have dealt with church splits and pastor firings so many times, that I am taking a break from such for a while.

 

[Marooncat79]

That is a huge question

what does a church do when no one is qualified?

does it fold up?

 

[Salty]

That is a huge question

what does a church do when no one is qualified?

does it fold up?

We haven't - because they do not want to.

and Reynolds - you answered the way it is in your church
what I was trying to get at - is what would be the best direction for a church to consider - when faced with those situation

 

[Marooncat79]

Idk

maybe ask another church to provide a pastor?

 

[Marooncat79]

Or Bible Teacher

 

[Reynolds]

We haven't - because they do not want to.

and Reynolds - you answered the way it is in your church
what I was trying to get at - is what would be the best direction for a church to consider - when faced with those situation

You have to grow. Whether C or A, if you have basically no people, you have to grow.

The solution for a church like I am in is slow and subtle teaching of sound doctrine. I do teach a bit. It is always so concrete that even though it rules the pastor a bit, he does not dare counter it.

 

[unprofitable]

You have to grow. Whether C or A, if you have basically no people, you have to grow.

The solution for a church like I am in is slow and subtle teaching of sound doctrine. I do teach a bit. It is always so concrete that even though it rules the pastor a bit, he does not dare counter it.

A friend of mine faced a similar problem. He was a member at a Baptist church that was Armenian in nature. After hearing a sovereign grace doctrine, he as an associate pastor, preached a sermon about his new understanding. The pastor who was prominent in some Baptist circles, condemn his message openly before the church.

The associate pastor confided in pastor at another church and asked him if should leave the church because of the confrontation. His pastor friend advised him to stay and continue to preach what he saw until the church either accepted his preaching or excluded him. They excluded him and one of the members at the closing of the meeting told him, "I agree with what you are teaching but I am too old to change." You cannot control the outcome of what you teach, but the Lord can.
The associate preacher was called to preach at another church where he has been pastor for several decades.

As a member of the body of Christ which you attend, it is your problem. Your approach to continue to preach and stand for sound doctrine is a mandate given to the church and its members in the edifying of the body of Christ.

I hope this is of some help.

 

[Salty]

Gentlemen - YOU ARE GOING OFF TOPIC! - THIS IS NOT A C-A discussion
it is not about Growth

The basic OP is how do you handle a situation if you have no qualified men to be elders or deacons - do you put unqualified men in????

 

[Dr. Bob]

1) If you have no qualified men to be an elder or deacon, do you leave the position empty or put in unqualified men?

2) If qualified men will not deal with the pastor as needed (assuming it is an elder led church). how do you replace such elders and/or pastors

3) If you are not an elder (in an elder led church) what responsibilities do you have to insist on changes.

1. Leave it empty. There are retired preachers/pastors in every state as well as lay workers. I helped a number of churches for 30+ years in small communities and this is workable. Even in our own church, we had 3 elders, all volunteer, all bi-vocational

2. We would deal with it as elders, probably have an all-church meeting if the elders alone could not work thru the problem

3. No one in any church can "insist" on change. With any member or an officer (deacon, elder) it is no different.

 

[Jec81]

I was in this boat once as an associate pastor of a church.
1. If no one qualified to do a job then it just doesn't get done.
2. It sounds like a pastor lead church so change will have to be gradual.
3. As ap of education and outreach, my insistence on change and as rebuffed.

I stayed to fight the fight until a similar position came open in another town, then God moved me there (funny story actually), the last time on staff at said church I tried to have a deep theological conversation with said pastor and he could not even keep up, the next day I left for the other position.

 

[Reynolds]

Gentlemen - YOU ARE GOING OFF TOPIC! - THIS IS NOT A C-A discussion
it is not about Growth

The basic OP is how do you handle a situation if you have no qualified men to be elders or deacons - do you put unqualified men in????

Church growth theory today unfortunately revolves around C vs A. The pragmatic A's and the sovereign C's. My point was that no matter which umbrella of church growth theory you fall under, it can be agreed that your church MUST grow.

 

[JonC]

In another thread it was stated:


Interesting comments - So three issues
1) If you have no qualified men to be an elder or deacon - do you:
leave the position empty or put in unqualified men?

2) If qualified men will not deal with the pastor as needed -
(assuming it is an elder led church) how do you replace such elders and/or pastors

3) If you are not an elder (in an elder led church) what responsibilities do you have to
insist on changes.

What do you mean by "qualified" (i.e., what is the disqualification and can the unqualified become qualified)?

 

[Salty]

Church growth theory today unfortunately revolves around C vs A. The pragmatic A's and the sovereign C's. My point was that no matter which umbrella of church growth theory you fall under, it can be agreed that your church MUST grow.

Then start another thread - - and we are not talking about growth either - PLEASE STAY ON SUBJECT.

 

[Salty]

What do you mean by "qualified" (i.e., what is the disqualification and can the unqualified become qualified)?

Good question!
1) I would say first of all - their spiritual life
2) possibly there interaction with others.
3) policy of the church - ie some say no single men, no divorce, ect
4) any other items.

possible consideration
lets say that a many is in a deep financial situation
his secular job keeps him out of church at least 2 Sundays a month

what other reasons have you actually seen?

Or are we too quick just to fill a position.

 

[Reynolds]

Then start another thread - - and we are not talking about growth either - PLEASE STAY ON SUBJECT.

Salty, you ask questions and then complain about the answers. You asked about not having qualified leadership. The reason you don't have any is that you don't have any people. To solve your problem, you must grow.
My response was on topic.
You posting threads like they going out of style in an attempt to generate traffic, then you complain about all the answers being off topic, when they are not at all off topic.

To have leaders, you need people. If you don't have any people, you don't have any leaders. You need leaders,.....GROW!

 

[Reynolds]

Good question!
1) I would say first of all - their spiritual life
2) possibly there interaction with others.
3) policy of the church - ie some say no single men, no divorce, ect
4) any other items.

possible consideration
lets say that a many is in a deep financial situation
his secular job keeps him out of church at least 2 Sundays a month

what other reasons have you actually seen?

Or are we too quick just to fill a position.

Another reason is you don't have any people. A person has to be there to be qualified.

 

[Dr. Bob]

To have leaders, you need people. If you don't have any people, you don't have any leaders. You need leaders,.....GROW!

That is true but NOT one of the three questions this thread asked. Think Salty wants answers to HIS questions, not your hobby horse answers.

1. Would you put in unqualified men in office
2. What if elder is not fulfilling his ministry
3. What would you do to insist on change

Growth is NOT the answer to any of these, though it is a great question. Take admonition to make your OWN thread, please.

 

[JonC]

Good question!
1) I would say first of all - their spiritual life
2) possibly there interaction with others.
3) policy of the church - ie some say no single men, no divorce, ect
4) any other items.

possible consideration
lets say that a many is in a deep financial situation
his secular job keeps him out of church at least 2 Sundays a month

what other reasons have you actually seen?

Or are we too quick just to fill a position.

Those are the qualifications I have seen as well.

When it comes to the first two, I think the church can develop that in its members. The 3rd can be a barrier.

 

[Reynolds]

1. Leave it empty. There are retired preachers/pastors in every state as well as lay workers. I helped a number of churches for 30+ years in small communities and this is workable. Even in our own church, we had 3 elders, all volunteer, all bi-vocational

2. We would deal with it as elders, probably have an all-church meeting if the elders alone could not work thru the problem

3. No one in any church can "insist" on change. With any member or an officer (deacon, elder) it is no different.

Salty started this thread by quoting me. The thread started on my Orig content, but ok, I am off topic if you say so.
I did directly answer his questions in post 2.