'US fearing exposure of Iraq war truth'

[carpro]

No evidence that ever happened. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_president_bush_call_the_constitution_a.html

Another ct? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[NiteShift]

Actually I brought up General Shelton. You chose to demonize Hersh instead. An easier target to dismiss I suppose.

You brought up Shelton and Hersh, and they were both wrong.

My guess is you've been spending to much time on mainstream corporate conspiracy and propaganda sites.

Now that's ironic, coming from the conspiricy king himself.

Let's get back to the VOC the first global corporation and fractional reserve banking. You never gave your thoughts on them. I gave you mine but then you switched gears and went for easier targets.

I am not an economist and neither are you. The US has had a central bank since 1791, charterd by Congress. Good idea? Bad Idea? Start a thread and maybe someone will join in.

Former US President George W. Bush says Israel had asked him to bomb an alleged nuclear site in Syria in 2007, but he balked at the request due to lack of justification...The latest threat of a military action was invoked by US Admiral Mike Mullen, who claimed he was ready to start a war if he was convinced it would keep Iran from making a bomb.

No one but the CT's thinks the US is about to attack Iran, not even the Iranians. Ahmadinejad (in between threats to destroy Israel) has called the idea of a US attack "a funny joke".

 

[kyredneck]

This wikileaks stuff is smoke and mirrors and propaganda meant to detract/distract from the truth that BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ.

Lest we forget:

http://mycatbirdseat.com/2010/09/the-source-of-americas-wars-kristol-clear-video/

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

BY DECEPTION WAS AMERICA LED INTO WAR WITH IRAQ

 

[poncho]

You brought up Shelton and Hersh, and they were both wrong.

Opinion. Based on, what? Tell us why they were wrong. If you can.

Now that's ironic, coming from the conspiricy king himself.

You just sound like you still draw all your conclusions based on what the monopolized corporate media spoon feeds ya. That's all.

I am not an economist and neither are you. The US has had a central bank since 1791, charterd by Congress. Good idea? Bad Idea? Start a thread and maybe someone will join in.

You don't have to be an economist to figure out fractional reserve banking is now and always has been a scam. It's a very simple concept NS. A third or fourth grader can understand it.

No one but the CT's thinks the US is about to attack Iran, not even the Iranians. Ahmadinejad (in between threats to destroy Israel) has called the idea of a US attack "a funny joke".

Again with the demonizing?

I must have missed something. Where did I say I thought the US was about to attack Iran?

The point I was trying to make was the neocons in Bush's days and before that even wanted war with Iran. And they still do (that's what they used to call "self evident") as evidenced by Graham's heart felt plea to destroy Iran. Keep in mind that we're talking about the ongoing operation "New Middle East" that you know as the global "war on terror".

I don't blieve that I said that the US was about to attack Iran. They (neocons) want to so much they practically drool at the thought of it though. Iran is uh let's say outside the jurisdiction of the global banks and corporations and they (conglomerated global banks and corporations that control the government of the United States) don't like it one bit. I doubt very much the US will attack Iran, without some sort of shocking pretext. Like "a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being." Because they need our consent to send more of our kids to the middle east to die in their wonderful "creative chaos".

It's all posted in this thread still. No need to get uppity if you missed something or are confused by all the history and facts contained in this thread NS. I realize you must be uncomfortable facing reality like this and all, but sooner or later we all have to do it. But then It's not the facts that makes you uncomfortable is it? It's the choice you might have to make if you actually considered them.

Here's another snipit to consider. This goes back to your VOC and it's purpose. You remember it's purpose right? Monopoly and control at any cost. It's still posted up yonder.

This has to do with the monopoly on the food you eat with a little history thrown in for background.

The food industry is no longer a free market. In fact, I'd go as far as saying it's becoming the most glaring example of corporate-government fascism in America.

Actual monopolies fully control the basic building blocks of the food that makes up the majority of the American diet -- and no one seems to care. Simply put, those who control the corn, wheat, and soybeans control all food, since all livestock and all processed foods are dependent on those food resources. These monopolies place their cronies in government regulatory agencies like the FDA and USDA to weed out their competition through excessive regulation. Currently proposed legislation are textbook examples of their methods.

There once was a time when free markets existed for food. Back when local food ruled the day, if a farmer sold milk that was bad, he would not get return customers unless he adjusted his practices to make a healthier product. This free market was self-regulating. In other words, in a truly free market we shouldn't need the FDA. However, as mentioned before, we are light years from a free market. SOURCE

This is what global corporations do NS. They monopolize. They always have and they always will. It's a very simple concept and history has shown time and again that this is true.

Now I suppose you'll make another attempt at demonization and tell us all that monopolies are a good thing and we should trust them because "they've been around for a long long time."

Oh yeah, this thread is going on 1,200 views. So why start another one till this one is over? Hear that Carpro? 1,200 views. How's it going with all your "blame the other side" threads? :laugh:

 

[NiteShift]

You don't have to be an economist to figure out fractional reserve banking is now and always has been a scam. It's a very simple concept NS. A third or fourth grader can understand it.

Your original complaint was "When did you vote for a central banker?".
The chairman of the Fed and members of the Board of Governors are appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress. That’s the way it has always been. You want to change this? Fine start a thread on it.

I must have missed something. Where did I say I thought the US was about to attack Iran?

Well in the past you have said that. – "Such as what the Bush regime is doing in Iran right now to destabilize and fan the flames of hatred there and in the greater Islamic world. Which could if given enough time take us to the "perceived attack" needed to start the bomb invade massacre stage that the population of the "injured" nation will see as just and deserved and so will support it whole heartedly."
　
More lately you said that General Shelton confirmed what Seymour Hersh had been saying all along. What Hersh had been saying was that Bush wanted a military confrontation with Iran with the ultimate goal of regime change. If that is not what you meant then possibly I misunderstood you.

It's all posted in this thread still. No need to get uppity if you missed something or are confused by all the history and facts contained in this thread NS. I realize you must be uncomfortable facing reality like this and all, but sooner or later we all have to do it. But then It's not the facts that makes you uncomfortable is it? It's the choice you might have to make if you actually considered them.

Ok, I will try not to get uppity. But I would say it’s you folks who do not face facts. And when your predictions fail to materialize (such as attacks on N. Korea, false flag nuke detonations off the eastern U.S. etc), no matter, you change the narrative a little and just keep banging away.
　
　

 

[poncho]

Your original complaint was "When did you vote for a central banker?".
The chairman of the Fed and members of the Board of Governors are appointed by the president and confirmed by Congress. That’s the way it has always been. You want to change this? Fine start a thread on it.

Starting a thread doesn't change anything. And you have the wrong idea anyway NS. Say we could vote on who got to be chairman of a criminal enterprise like the Fed the only thing that would change is that we would get to choose which crook continued to rob us.

Well in the past you have said that. – "Such as what the Bush regime is doing in Iran right now to destabilize and fan the flames of hatred there and in the greater Islamic world. Which could if given enough time take us to the "perceived attack" needed to start the bomb invade massacre stage that the population of the "injured" nation will see as just and deserved and so will support it whole heartedly."

I'm not denying I've said this in the past. I have and I told you in this thread that I still think if Bush had the nerve and where with all to do it he would have. But then Bush never did run anything, really. He was a front man for the banksters, the corporitos and AIPAC. As Obama is now. It's the banksters, corporitos and AIPAC who control our government, run the country and make up our "foreign and domestic" policies. Not the president or congress and we should all know beyond a reasonable doubt by now that this is the case.

More lately you said that General Shelton confirmed what Seymour Hersh had been saying all along. What Hersh had been saying was that Bush wanted a military confrontation with Iran with the ultimate goal of regime change. If that is not what you meant then possibly I misunderstood you.

I posted this for one reason. Shelton confirmed that Bush and his neocon handlers lied to us about Iraq. They lied and they fearmongered and they tried to make us believe Saddam was behind or at least involved in 9/11. Folks like me said bunk! Their lying! And folks like you? Well, you thought otherwise.

It was all lies. Just like I've been saying since day one. My story never changed but theirs did, several times.

Ok, I will try not to get uppity. But I would say it’s you folks who do not face facts. And when your predictions fail to materialize (such as attacks on N. Korea, false flag nuke detonations off the eastern U.S. etc), no matter, you change the narrative a little and just keep banging away.

　
Folks like me pay very close attention to the facts. Facts like, fractional reserve banking is a scam. Facts like, the purpose of global corporations is now and always has been to monopolize and consolidate power to the point where they can control governments. Facts like, the US government has employed terrorists in the past in order to overthrow other governments that weren't "corporate friendly". Facts like, the US government drew up at least one plan to carry out terrorist attacks on it's own people for a pretext to start a war with Cuba.

It's folks like you who keep denying these facts that make people like me keep banging away. And it's folks like me who'll keep bringing up these facts until folks like you understand that . . .

"Man is the only animal that can remain on friendly terms with the victims he intends to eat until he eats them” Samuel Butler

Loosely translated that means, man is the only animal that can smile in your face while plunging a knife in your back. Men are corrupt. The bible tells us this. Our founders told us this. The history of just about all past civilizations bears witness to this and yet folks like you continue to try and poo poo this well documented fact and try make us believe we can trust the government and the consolidated corporate mass media to do what's right.

Government is full of corrupt men who lust for power. Who'll do whatever it takes to gain it and hold on to it. The media is owned and controlled by corrupt men who lust for power and control. Who'll do whatever it takes to gain it and hold on to it. And still folks like you try to make us believe we can trust them to do what's just and honorable?

Puleeze!

So far NS you've managed to bring up a bit of stuff about me while sidestepping the whole jist of the thread. And that jist is that the government, the pentagon (with it's military/security/energy industrial complex buddies) in particular and AIPAC are afraid we'll learn the whole sordid truth about their corporate "middle east project" folks like you call the global "war on terror".

Are you going to speak on this before this thread closes or do you have something else to bring up about me you'd rather talk about instead?

 

[poncho]

No evidence that ever happened. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_president_bush_call_the_constitution_a.html

Is that supposed to mean the rest of his post has no merit?

Just wondering because that's an old propagandists trick of picking out the weakest piece in an argument and acting like they debunked the whole thing.

It's a neat trick alright but alot of us seen it here too many times to fall for it again.

 

[NiteShift]

They lied and they fearmongered and they tried to make us believe Saddam was behind or at least involved in 9/11. Folks like me said bunk! Their lying! And folks like you? Well, you thought otherwise.

I don't believe Bush ever tried to pin 9/11 on Saddam. I never thought Saddam was responsible and I never tried to convince you or anyone else that he was.

Men are corrupt. The bible tells us this.

No kidding?

Government is full of corrupt men who lust for power. Who'll do whatever it takes to gain it and hold on to it. The media is owned and controlled by corrupt men who lust for power and control. Who'll do whatever it takes to gain it and hold on to it. And still folks like you try to make us believe we can trust them to do what's just and honorable? Puleeze!

There are enough real problems in the world without your folks dreaming up all sorts of non-existant schemes. Like that Bush is really a Nazi, or that Skull & Bones was ever anything more than a goofy college fraternity "secret society". Or that Bush was about to round up the true patriots and herd them into concentration camps. Or that NATO exercises were just a prelude to martial rule in America. Or that Bush wouldn't leave office when his term expired. Or the Amero. And on and on.

Folks like me pay very close attention to the facts.

Sorry poncho. You put stuff out there, some people are going to disagree with you and say so. And when you put on airs as if you only can see the truth, well you should expect to receive some the replies you get.

And that jist is that the government, the pentagon (with it's military/security/energy industrial complex buddies) in particular and AIPAC are afraid we'll learn the whole sordid truth about their corporate "middle east project" folks like you call the global "war on terror".

Are you going to speak on this before this thread closes or do you have something else to bring up about me you'd rather talk about instead?

Bush gave as a reason for the invasion that he'd rather fight Al Qaeda over there than in our streets. And I think that's what the war in Iraq was all about. Al Qaeda had been pushed out of Afghanistan, so Iraq was as good a place as any to fight them. The Democrats couldn't holler because they had been calling for regime change in Iraq for years. UN couldn't holler because Saddam was in violation of several UN sanctions.

That's it. That's my opinion. And it makes at least as much sense as blaming it on the Jews, or big business, or any of the other schemes you've put out there.

 

[poncho]

I don't believe Bush ever tried to pin 9/11 on Saddam. I never thought Saddam was responsible and I never tried to convince you or anyone else that he was.

Sorry poncho. You put stuff out there, some people are going to disagree with you and say so. And when you put on airs as if you only can see the truth, well you should expect to receive some the replies you get.

You don't remember? Google it.

So once again it's about me. Now there's a surprise. Why can't you stick with the facts at hand?

Bush and the neocons lied. Fact! The "war on terror" is a bogus fake. Fact!

Poncho did this, Poncho posted that, Poncho thinks, Poncho feels. You sound like a broken record.

What's any of that got to do what we're talking about here and now?

Facts. You talk about facts when it's in your interest but when is isn't you talk about me instead.

What's up with all that anyway?

 

[poncho]

So far NS you've managed to bring up a bit of stuff about me (again) while sidestepping the whole jist of the thread. And that jist is that the government, the pentagon (with it's military/security/energy industrial complex buddies) in particular and AIPAC are afraid we'll learn the whole sordid truth about their corporate "middle east project" folks like you call the global "war on terror".

Are you (ever) going to speak on this before this thread closes or do you have something else to bring up about me you'd rather talk about instead?

I'm begining to think you're purposely skirting these facts because they don't fit neatly into the false left vs right paradigm to which you evidently still subscribe.

Facts NS. That's what we're talking about here. Facts like the US hasn't had a central bank since 1791, like you claimed.

You made the claim but when I showed you otherwise you started demonizing me instead of answering to your mistake.

Bush and the neocons lied. Whatever "reasons" they gave after that are irrelevant because they are just lies to cover up lies.

I showed you how fractional reserve banking is a scam. You answered by demonizing me.

I showed you global corporations are indeed "inherently evil" you answered by demonizing me.

Just because something has been around a long long time doesn't automatically mean it's immune from investigation. It doesn't mean it can be trusted and it doesn't mean it's there to look after "our" interests and do good for mankind.

You said Shelton and Hersh are both wrong, yet you failed to show us why. You gave your "opinion" but you never told us if it was based on facts or someone else's "opinion" and if it was based on someone else's "opinion" then who's? If your opinion is based on facts, then where are they?

kyredneck put alot of facts in front of you that (apparently) you cannot easily deny so what did you do to answer? You demonized me and tried to make the connection that he and I are both paranoid anti semites.

Here's a novel idea.

Address the facts and leave the "demonizing the opposition" to the corporate mass media's experts. Your constant feeble attempts at "demonizing the opposition" only shows how weak your "arguemnet" really is and it's getting very boring on top of that.

 

[poncho]

That's what I thought.

 

[NiteShift]

Yes Mr Poncho. You're right about everything. All of it. :thumbs:

Except for all the stuff you've been wrong about over the years. But can't bring all that up. That would be demonizing.

 

[poncho]

Yes Mr Poncho. You're right about everything. All of it. :thumbs:

Except for all the stuff you've been wrong about over the years. But can't bring all that up. That would be demonizing.

I have no problem with being corrected. Having someone trying to paint me as an anti - semite for example because I might post something that reflects negatively on one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington or Israeli policy itself goes beyond correction.

I gotta admit though I am about sick and tired of being accused of having "special" knowledge that only I know about.

I know about things others don't because I'm always researching. It's not that difficult.

I want to know the facts I don't have any time or use for government propaganda or the corporate media's scare tactics. Endlessly debating this stuff is a complete waste of time and only serves to cloud the issue and protect the guilty.

 

[NiteShift]

I have no problem with being corrected. Having someone trying to paint me as an anti - semite for example because I might post something that reflects negatively on one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington or Israeli policy itself goes beyond correction.

Please show where I tried to paint you as an anti-Semite. Thanks.

 

[poncho]

Please show where I tried to paint you as an anti-Semite. Thanks.

Post 88 "And it makes at least as much sense as blaming it on the Jews,"

This is a "tie in" NS. You knew it when you typed it.

Some context.

kyredneck posted some articles that showed how AIPAC manipulates the US's foreign policy. Religion never entered into it. I couldn't care less if everyone in AIPAC were atheists or practiced voodoo.

If they are manipulating our foreign policy and they are then it behooves Americans to take notice.

Bringing up the "j" word like you did only serves to shut down meaningful discussion on important issues, like having a group of people that maniplate our foreign policy who just happen to represent a foreign nation.

This set up is an entangling alliance in the extreme.

"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. But that jealousy, to be useful, must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it.Excessive partiality for one foreign nation, and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favorite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests." SOURCE

Ya think Goerge Washington was "blaming the jews" here?

I doubt it very much but he was warning us about just this kind of dangerous favoritism towards another nation.

Which do you consider yourself to be NS, a real patriot, a neocon patriot, a nationalist, a tool, or a dupe?

 

[NiteShift]

This is a "tie in" NS. You knew it when you typed it... kyredneck posted some articles that showed how AIPAC manipulates the US's foreign policy...Bringing up the "j" word like you did only serves to shut down meaningful discussion on important issues, like having a group of people that maniplate our foreign policy who just happen to represent a foreign nation.

Yep. And in some circles, blaming AIPAC for everything they don't like in the US is just a neat way of saying 'The Jews run our country', while allowing them to not use the "J" word. But I'm glad to know you're not one of those. So if you felt painted as an anti-Semite then I'm sure sorry.

Which do you consider yourself to be NS, a real patriot, a neocon patriot, a nationalist, a tool, or a dupe?

Well, of the two of us, I am the one who voluntarily served in this country's military for 7 years, but you do have that nifty Minuteman avatar. That counts for alot. So I guess you're the true patriot. And me, I must be just some tool or dupe. You can take your choice I suppose.

 

[poncho]

Yep. And in some circles, blaming AIPAC for everything they don't like in the US is just a neat way of saying 'The Jews run our country', while allowing them to not use the "J" word. But I'm glad to know you're not one of those. So if you felt painted as an anti-Semite then I'm sure sorry.



Well, of the two of us, I am the one who voluntarily served in this country's military for 7 years, but you do have that nifty Minuteman avatar. That counts for alot. So I guess you're the true patriot. And me, I must be just some tool or dupe. You can take your choice I suppose.

You enlisted? Well what a coincidence so did I.

The truth of the matter is NS you and I both served the bankers and corporitos who control our government. So don't come off like yer all special for sporting a "high and tight".

You ain't the only one.

The difference today is I do serve my country by telling people who really runs it. And you? What do you do?

Tell people I'm a nutcase for doing it. And use cheap shot warn out propagandist's tricks (poorly) in doing so.

You, like our good friend Carpro evidently have patriotism and nationalism confused my friend.

 

[NiteShift]

You enlisted? Well what a coincidence so did I.

The truth of the matter is NS you and I both served the bankers and corporitos who control our government. So don't come off like yer all special for sporting a "high and tight".

You ain't the only one.

So you had some good sense at one time?!

The difference today is I do serve my country by telling people who really runs it. And you? What do you do?

Tell people I'm a nutcase for doing it. And use cheap shot warn out propagandist's tricks (poorly) in doing so.

Anybody can gather up all sorts of cheap shot half-truths about the US. It doesn't serve anybody. There is a whole world of people all over the globe trying to do that very thing. Huge numbers of people think the US creates tidal waves and earthquakes at will for example. You're not helping. If I ever saw you defend your own country against some ridiculous rumor like that I would pass out cold on the spot.

 

[windcatcher]

Aside from a few back & forth slaps...

This has been one of the most interesting & tightly informative discussions I've seen on this board in some time.

Poncho .... and others.... thank you.

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree with carpro that the idea we are to blame for 911 is disgusting.