Using Wine in the Lord's Supper

[KenH]

Modern grape juice is pasteurized. And refrigerated after opening.

They drank wine in the first century. Yes, Jesus and the apostles and the early Christians drank alcoholic wine. I see no reason for that to be controversial. Seems like the only ones with a problem with it are vestigial members of the Tolerance Movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My wife’s a recovering alcoholic and my doctor advises against consuming alcohol for my health conditions so no I would not participate if no alternatives were offered.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

They drank wine in the first century. Yes, Jesus and the apostles and the early Christians drank alcoholic wine. I see no reason for that to be controversial. Seems like the only ones with a problem with it are vestigial members of the Tolerance Movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

LOL…. Just what is tolerable about it?!? In the day a single malt scotch and/or a vodka neat with olives would be preferred to wimpy wine Mogen David stuff yuk

 

[KenH]

They drank wine in the first century. Yes, Jesus and the apostles and the early Christians drank alcoholic wine. I see no reason for that to be controversial. Seems like the only ones with a problem with it are vestigial members of the Tolerance Movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

@Earth Wind and Fire

I meant "Temperance Movement", not "Tolerance Movement". I apologize for the error.

 

[unprofitable]

Earth, Wind, and Fire,

I well know about one is too many and a thousand not enough. It has been over 30 years since I had a drink but have not failed to partake of the Lord's supper where wine was served. We only drink about a tablespoonful at the observance if that much. If one is weak in the faith so that they believe they would go back to drinking because of observing a righteous ordinance of the Lord, it may be better for them to abstain until their sobriety is stronger.

I urge you to ask your doctor if he thinks a tablespoonful of wine offered at the Lord's table would be a detriment to your health. I believe he was thinking in terms of larger amounts and frequency.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Earth Wind and Fire

I meant "Temperance Movement", not "Tolerance Movement". I apologize for the error.

seized the day dude…​

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Earth, Wind, and Fire,

I well know about one is too many and a thousand not enough. It has been over 30 years since I had a drink but have not failed to partake of the Lord's supper where wine was served. We only drink about a tablespoonful at the observance if that much. If one is weak in the faith so that they believe they would go back to drinking because of observing a righteous ordinance of the Lord, it may be better for them to abstain until their sobriety is stronger.

I urge you to ask your doctor if he thinks a tablespoonful of wine offered at the Lord's table would be a detriment to your health. I believe he was thinking in terms of larger amounts and frequency.

I’m not an alcoholic… truth be told, I find them mentally week. However since I don’t partake of any alcohol, I’d prefer to not participate. It’s my disciplinary nature that precludes me from even entertaining it. Are we clear on that.

 

[37818]

They drank wine in the first century. Yes, Jesus and the apostles and the early Christians drank alcoholic wine. I see no reason for that to be controversial. Seems like the only ones with a problem with it are vestigial members of the Tolerance Movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

Unpasteurized fresh grape juice is going to ferment. The Greek word properly translated wine refers to grape juice. Wine being the juice at any stage of fermentation.
Now bread can be unleavened or leavened nothing in between. Either or.

So use wine and leavened bread.

I choose pasteurized grape juice and unleaven bread.

See the argument of the symbol?

Technically Jesus only specified bread and did not use the term that can be translated wine.

 

[KenH]

Unpasteurized fresh grape juice is going to ferment. The Greek word properly translated wine refers to grape juice. Wine being the juice at any stage of fermentation.
Now bread can be unleavened or leavened nothing in between. Either or.

So use wine and leavened bread.

I choose pasteurized grape juice and unleaven bread.

See the argument of the symbol?

Technically Jesus only specified bread and did not use the term that can be translated wine.

Sounds like you are overcomplicating the issue. I have no problem with using wine or grape juice. I just started this thread a while back since I know there are some people who have a real issue with partaking of any alcohol at all(for various reasons) and was just curious how they would handle the situation.

I don't think there is any question that unleavened bread should be used. Leaven tends to not exactly be spoken well of in the New Testament.

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.

Galatians 5:7-9 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

 

[37818]

Sounds like you are overcomplicating the issue. I have no problem with using wine or grape juice. I just started this thread a while back since I know there are some people who have a real issue with partaking of any alcohol at all(for various reasons) and was just curious how they would handle the situation.

Not complicated. I simply clarified my view. And many will not not agree.

 

[unprofitable]

Earth, Wind, and Fire

I am sorry you think so poorly of your wife. You will not find anywhere in my post that I called YOU an alcoholic. If you had taken the time to mentally reflect on my post you would have known that and not made such a false insinuation. Maybe it's not just alcoholics who are mentally weak.

There are many medical conditions and drugs that may make drinking alcohol contraindicated. Had you taken the time to read and understand my point, that in the vast majority of them, a tablespoonful of wine would not be an issue, then you would not have had clear up anything that was only misunderstood by you. If you had said that in your original post and not blamed the doctor for you abstinence, it would have been much more clear.

 

[JonC]

They drank wine in the first century. Yes, Jesus and the apostles and the early Christians drank alcoholic wine. I see no reason for that to be controversial. Seems like the only ones with a problem with it are vestigial members of the Tolerance Movement of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

I have to admit that I prefer grape juice (Welch's, to be specific).

 

[old regular]

This poll came to my mind based on the poll thread that @Salty started about eating near a casino.

The church where I fellowship will partaking in the Lord's Supper this coming Sunday(we have the Lord's Supper on the 5th Sunday of the months with 5 Sundays in them). We use real wine in doing so. So my question is: Would you partake of the Lord's Supper if real wine is used? Personally, I have no problem with it. I just have to remind myself that even though it will taste like grape juice that it will have a kick when I swallow. It is just a typical small communion cup.

I would have more issue if grape juice was being used and leavened bread.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Jews did, do, and will drink wine at the seder. Jews did, do, and will use unleavened bread at the seder. They do NOT use welch grape juice (full of leaven - they would be breaking the command). They do not use pepsi and pizza. They do not use milk and Wonder Bread.

Grapes were harvested in June-September. Passover is April. So much for "new wine" myth. Wine is the word used for a reason - it was fully fermented. All the leaven was gone, just as it was from the flour.

Today we have the advantage of fully fermented wine (no leaven) BUT have the alcohol eliminated. For decades in my state, we I encouraged churches to use this real wine that is not alcoholic to be symbolically accurate but non-offensive to the abstinence crowd. Fre Wines: Non-Alcoholic Wines