Vaccine killing Chilldren

[1689Dave]

I don't disagree, but why does God need a vaccine? If the vaccine works, it's protecting some people I guarantee are not elect.

He uses means. Notice Paul stopped healing miraculously after it served its purpose of confirming his apostleship. The Epistles show he placed his sick friends on medicine.

 

[Reynolds]

He uses means. Notice Paul stopped healing miraculously after it served its purpose of confirming his apostleship. The Epistles show he placed his sick friends on medicine.

I don't really know if he stopped healing or not. I don't know that he ever had a gift to universally heal. I believe the gift operated at the will of The Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

I don't really know if he stopped healing or not. I don't know that he ever had a gift to universally heal. I believe the gift operated at the will of The Holy Spirit.

He still heals through the prayer of faith. I've experienced this a few times. But the signs and wonders of the Apostles, raising the dead, restoring crippled limbs, and such ended with the Apostles. They were meant to identify an Apostle.

 

[Reynolds]

To be more clear, the he in my post was Paul. I don't see anything in Scripture that would remotely suggest that the apostle Paul lost any of the Spiritual gifts prior to his death.

He still heals through the prayer of faith. I've experienced this a few times. But the signs and wonders of the Apostles, raising the dead, restoring crippled limbs, and such ended with the Apostles. They were meant to identify an Apostle.

 

[1689Dave]

To be more clear, the he in my post was Paul. I don't see anything in Scripture that would remotely suggest that the apostle Paul lost any of the Spiritual gifts prior to his death.

Why did Paul place his friends on Medicine if the gifts are for today?
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul’s thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

 

[Reynolds]

Why did Paul place his friends on Medicine if the gifts are for today?
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul’s thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).

That would mean Paul lost spiritual gifts before his writings were complete. That makes no sense. He would lose a gift of healing but not a gift of revelation.

 

[1689Dave]

That would mean Paul lost spiritual gifts before his writings were complete. That makes no sense. He would lose a gift of healing but not a gift of revelation.

Paul said the gifts would cease. And this is proof they did.

 

[Reynolds]

Paul said the gifts would cease. And this is proof they did.

He said they would. When did he say they would? I see it as when Jesus returns. Most Baptists see it as when Scripture was complete. Scripture, specifically the part Paul wrote, was not complete at that time.
The only logical answer is the Gifts operated at the will of The Spirit, not the will of Paul.

 

[1689Dave]

He said they would. When did he say they would? I see it as when Jesus returns. Most Baptists see it as when Scripture was complete. Scripture, specifically the part Paul wrote, was not complete at that time.
The only logical answer is the Gifts operated at the will of The Spirit, not the will of Paul.

We should open a thread on Charismatic gifts. Briefly, He said we know in part using tongues and prophecy. He said they would cease when the perfect (complete) comes. This described the NT. It thoroughly equips us where tongues and prophecy never did.

The gifts ONLY came through an apostle's hands other than in the Apostle's case. Or in the case of the gentiles in Peter's presence. So when John the last apostle died, the gifts ended with him. I have lots about this for a new thread if interested.

 

[Reynolds]

We should open a thread on Charismatic gifts. Briefly, He said we know in part using tongues and prophecy. He said they would cease when the perfect (complete) comes. This described the NT. It thoroughly equips us where tongues and prophecy never did.

The gifts ONLY came through an apostle's hands other than in the Apostle's case. Or in the case of the gentiles in Peter's presence. So when John the last apostle died, the gifts ended with him. I have lots about this for a new thread if interested.

That is an entirely different discussion that I am not wanting to get into again. It has been thoroughly worn out on here.
My point is in your above post, you say the gifts ended with completion of N.T. For this discussion, assume that to be true. You have the gifts ending in Paul's ministry while he is still writing books of the New Testament.

 

[1689Dave]

That is an entirely different discussion that I am not wanting to get into again. It has been thoroughly worn out on here.
My point is in your above post, you say the gifts ended with completion of N.T. For this discussion, assume that to be true. You have the gifts ending in Paul's ministry while he is still writing books of the New Testament.

Where are the gifts? None in the Epistles or in Revelation. Apostles wrote scripture just as Moses did. Nothing to do with gifts.

 

[atpollard]

May I offer one point to ponder ...

If the jab is Godly then what faith is enhanced by accepting this?

If the jab is poison and you survive, who is glorified? If the jab is poison and you fall to it?

If there is to pass through themidst of this pestilence and “go on your way” ... who is glorified?

If one steps out to pass through the midst and succumbs to the virus ... who is glorified?

Seems to me the former (Mark 16) is legitimate, but if it glorifies God, the survivors will be the exception rather than the rule of going with what the world says.

Ditto for those who generally claim “pass through its midst” counter to the world’s logic.

God is glorified when we act out of TRUST in Him rather than fear of the world ... whether we take the vaccine (meat) to the glory of God or abstain from the vaccine (meat) to the glory of God. In all cases, "perfect Love casts out all fear."

 

[JonC]

That doesn't say much. What, instead of 1 case we had 1/34? (if we believe them)

Since Sep 1, 2021 there have been 1,700,000 pediatric covid cases.

Initially we did not see kids getting covid and dying of the virus.

 

[Reynolds]

Where are the gifts? None in the Epistles or in Revelation. Apostles wrote scripture just as Moses did. Nothing to do with gifts.

Inspiration of The Holy Spirit is the active revelation of The Holy Spirit. It falls into the same revelation as prophecy. It is a Revelation gift.

 

[1689Dave]

Inspiration of The Holy Spirit is the active revelation of The Holy Spirit. It falls into the same revelation as prophecy. It is a Revelation gift.

But scripture replaced prophecy and tongues. All you here there today is false. Chew on this for awhile; https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Pentecostalism-Its-Roots-Slavery/dp/1500858080

 

[Two Wings]

But scripture replaced prophecy and tongues. All you here there today is false. Chew on this for awhile; https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Pentecostalism-Its-Roots-Slavery/dp/1500858080

More pretirism?

I still struggle with this notion “virtually all” prophesy was fulfilled in 70 AD.

There’s a lot of unknown for “virtually all” prophesy to have been fulfilled already.

 

[dad2]

But God gave us the vaccines.

You thought God commanded them to kill those babies used in research decades ago? I guess you also think that the mark of the beast will be something 'god' gives us!? Not all wisdom is from above. We ought to know the difference.

Be careful how you see this. It is blasphemy to attribute the works of God to the Devil.

I also do not think God gave us nuclear bombs and a lot of other things. You can have your god.

 

[dad2]

But scripture replaced prophecy and tongues. All you here there today is false. Chew on this for awhile; https://www.amazon.com/Pagan-Pentecostalism-Its-Roots-Slavery/dp/1500858080

I think I heard that somewhere before. Chapter and verse then, to refresh my memory? Why stop there? Did God replace faith, and gifts of the spirit, and prayer as well? Seems to me there will still be prophets in the end. Prophets like the two witnesses. The apostles prophesied as well and healed. So show us where the bible says that after a certain year, when all or some of the apostles and early Christians died, that the world would no longer have some things you claim? I have an open mind, but you need to do more than state something to make is true.

 

[1689Dave]

You thought God commanded them to kill those babies used in research decades ago? I guess you also think that the mark of the beast will be something 'god' gives us!? Not all wisdom is from above. We ought to know the difference.

I also do not think God gave us nuclear bombs and a lot of other things. You can have your god.

God produces all that happens. That's why they call Him God. Could it be that you hate God thinking He is someone more to your liking?

 

[1689Dave]

I think I heard that somewhere before. Chapter and verse then, to refresh my memory? Why stop there? Did God replace faith, and gifts of the spirit, and prayer as well? Seems to me there will still be prophets in the end. Prophets like the two witnesses. The apostles prophesied as well and healed. So show us where the bible says that after a certain year, when all or some of the apostles and early Christians died, that the world would no longer have some things you claim? I have an open mind, but you need to do more than state something to make is true.

If you wanted to learn, I'd take the time.