Vaccine morality.

[Reynolds]

Interesting way of thinking about vaccine mandates. For the sake of this discussion, just assume the vaccine works. Also acknowledge that at least one person will have every side effect listed on the CDC website for each vaccine.
This then becomes the classic morality discussion of torturing the one to save the many.

BBC - Ethics - Torture: The 'ticking bomb' problem

Those who support allowing coercion to vax please explain how your view differs from the classic morality example. Economic coercion does equal force.

 

[1689Dave]

From a Christian standpoint, no one should be coerced into receiving a vaccination. Nobody dies before their appointed time. Covid as well as any epidemic or pandemic is one of God's four sore judgments He uses when unleashing his wrath on wicked people. So it will take its preordained course either with or without vaccinations.

I see the Pfizer vaccine as one of the effects in Daniel where at the time of the end, knowledge will be increased and "miracle medicines and procedures are part of it.
I have 3 shots so far thanking God for the resource. And thinking I will not help in spreading the disease.

 

[JonC]

From a Christian standpoint, no one should be coerced into receiving a vaccination. Nobody dies before their appointed time. Covid as well as any epidemic or pandemic is one of God's four sore judgments He uses when unleashing his wrath on wicked people. So it will take its preordained course either with or without vaccinations.

I see the Pfizer vaccine as one of the effects in Daniel where at the time of the end, knowledge will be increased and "miracle medicines and procedures are part of it.
I have 3 shots so far thanking God for the resource. And thinking I will not help in spreading the disease.

I agree. Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine. I doubt it will happen here. Before covid we had these same debates regarding the measles vaccine. Some districts required them to attend school. I know some who did not want their children vaccinated because they believed it too risky. They chose homeschooling rather than find a district that did not require the vaccines.

But like you I have had my 3rd shot (Moderna), and I thank God that He has gifted men with the skills to develop vaccines.

 

[1689Dave]

I agree. Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine. I doubt it will happen here. Before covid we had these same debates regarding the measles vaccine. Some districts required them to attend school. I know some who did not want their children vaccinated because they believed it too risky. They chose homeschooling rather than find a district that did not require the vaccines.

But like you I have had my 3rd shot (Moderna), and I thank God that He has gifted men with the skills to develop vaccines.

I connect modern medicine to Daniel's prophecy as to the time of the end where people travel to and fro and knowledge is increased. So it's a matter of faith and thanksgiving to God for His healing through human hands. By the time the epistles came about, Paul had already placed his friends on medicine.

 

[Reformed1689]

Nobody should be forced to take a vaccine. I doubt it will happen here.

Coercion IS forced.

What is Coercion Law? - FindLaw

 

[JonC]

I just realized the title of the OP – “Vaccine Morality” (I had been just hitting new posts and responding to posts).


Are vaccines moral?

I believe that vaccines are not only moral but to deny the advancement of medicine is, perhaps, an immoral position.

The Chinese used a smallpox inoculation (or variolation) as early as 1000 AD. Probably the most known beginnings in our culture is Edward Jenner’s work, beginning with his successful use of cowpox material to create a small pox vaccine (1796). Louis Pasteur’s 1885 rabies vaccine was probably the next in a line of vaccine impact. Then we had vaccinations against diphtheria, tetanus, anthrax, cholera, plague, tuberculosis, and typhoid that were developed through the 1930’s.

The measles, mumps, and rubella along with the rabies vaccines are estimated at saving over 30,000,000 lives.

In 2013 a mRNA vaccine for rabies was developed. 101 people were vaccinated with 306 doses of mRNA. Participants were given three escalating doses of the mRNA vaccine and after a year one participant received a booster dose. This was the first demonstration in humans showing that a mRNA vaccine can induce boostable functional antibodies against a virus. And of course we have the mRNA vaccines against the covid virus today.

We know from Scripture that God is a God of means God uses people. And any good gift is a gift from God. So from a religious standpoint (what I believe the origin of morality), I believe it is fair to say that vaccines are moral.

There is a moral issue regarding the use of fetal cell lines. The rubella vaccine was developed using a fetal cell line. This is not to say that the actual vaccine contains cells from a fetal cell line. Cell lines are not actually used to produce vaccine viruses. However Dr. Ploktin grew the rubella virus he had isolated from a fetal cell line and found after the virus had been grown through cells 25 times at lower temperature the virus was no longer able to replicate, but was able to provide a protective immune response.


What are fetal cell lines? These lines are cell cultures that were grown from a primary cell culture consisting of cells taken directly from living tissue (fetal tissue from an aborted baby).

What about the mRNA covid vaccinations?


The mRNA covid vaccinations were not developed using any fetal cell line. They were, however, tested against a fetal cell line to assure the desired effect would be obtained. In other words, fetal cell lines have nothing at all to do with the mRNA vaccine.

 

[JonC]

But what about adverse reactions?

With any vaccine – and any medical procedure – there are possible side-effects. Unfortunately these include the potential to be fatal. The main concern is anaphylaxis.

Is it immoral to use a vaccine like the measles vaccine, the mumps vaccine, the pneumonia vaccine, or the covid vaccine knowing that there is a possibility it could result in the death of a human being?

I believe it is moral. The risks and benefits of the vaccine needs to be weighed against the risks of the virus. With the covid vaccine, for example, there is a .5% chance of death and a much larger chance of permanent damage to the body. But there is less than a 0.0017% chance of death with a covid vaccine – or, per the data in VAERS, 2 persons per 1,000,000 - (about the same chance of getting struck by lightening). .

There is an argument that putting one person at risk to save millions is immoral. We can understand this argument most clearly by looking at the actions of the United States during WWII when the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. The objection is that the bomb killed 126,000 civilians in order to end the war. The counter argument is the use of the bomb saved lives by ending the war.

This is where I believe a moral argument does legitimately exist. Unlike WWII people should be able to decide whether to be vaccinated

 

[Reynolds]

I just realized the title of the OP – “Vaccine Morality” (I had been just hitting new posts and responding to posts).


Are vaccines moral?

I believe that vaccines are not only moral but to deny the advancement of medicine is, perhaps, an immoral position.

The Chinese used a smallpox inoculation (or variolation) as early as 1000 AD. Probably the most known beginnings in our culture is Edward Jenner’s work, beginning with his successful use of cowpox material to create a small pox vaccine (1796). Louis Pasteur’s 1885 rabies vaccine was probably the next in a line of vaccine impact. Then we had vaccinations against diphtheria, tetanus, anthrax, cholera, plague, tuberculosis, and typhoid that were developed through the 1930’s.

The measles, mumps, and rubella along with the rabies vaccines are estimated at saving over 30,000,000 lives.

In 2013 a mRNA vaccine for rabies was developed. 101 people were vaccinated with 306 doses of mRNA. Participants were given three escalating doses of the mRNA vaccine and after a year one participant received a booster dose. This was the first demonstration in humans showing that a mRNA vaccine can induce boostable functional antibodies against a virus. And of course we have the mRNA vaccines against the covid virus today.

We know from Scripture that God is a God of means God uses people. And any good gift is a gift from God. So from a religious standpoint (what I believe the origin of morality), I believe it is fair to say that vaccines are moral.

There is a moral issue regarding the use of fetal cell lines. The rubella vaccine was developed using a fetal cell line. This is not to say that the actual vaccine contains cells from a fetal cell line. Cell lines are not actually used to produce vaccine viruses. However Dr. Ploktin grew the rubella virus he had isolated from a fetal cell line and found after the virus had been grown through cells 25 times at lower temperature the virus was no longer able to replicate, but was able to provide a protective immune response.


What are fetal cell lines? These lines are cell cultures that were grown from a primary cell culture consisting of cells taken directly from living tissue (fetal tissue from an aborted baby).

What about the mRNA covid vaccinations?


The mRNA covid vaccinations were not developed using any fetal cell line. They were, however, tested against a fetal cell line to assure the desired effect would be obtained. In other words, fetal cell lines have nothing at all to do with the mRNA vaccine.

So you agree it's OK to torture the few in an attempt to save the many. The known major side effects of the vaxed are torture. Torture the few, to try to save the many.
Please explain how that does not accurately portray your position.

 

[agedman]

In our area (central Texas) those who have been vaccinated and still get covid have a great deal less problems and unless there is some other pre-covid condition (heart, lungs, kidney, liver,…), all have recovered.

Those without the vaccine(s) are at a much higher rate of mortality.

I wonder if the Scripture gives some guidance?

Would, “take no thought …”, be a guide, for if there is no Scripture principle, then there is no reason to refuse the guidance of those God has appointed to rule over us.