Vatican Ain't Ready For Reform

Are you listening to yourself? Saved without a true gospel? In that case just having a bible, makes one saved?

"That's up to God to save people without the true gospel"?

Hmm, well in that case I have yet to hear a true gospel from you. Since being saved does not entail speaking truth ,according to you keep speaking, that others may receive an untrue gospel. I guess you will be serving some purpose, creating a people not really saved then.

After all Christ did say "This gospel must be preached to all the ends of the earth". Is that His or yours, or anyone's as long as they have a bible?

News flash.....every denomination , (that is relevant that is) has the true gospel because they have the bible. What I think you mean is, men have not always interpreted it correctly. This includes you by the way. For no one lay a foundation not already laid, THAT BEING CHRIST JESUS. What men build upon it , that is what is false. You build a lot of hay for sure.

 

Every church has access to the Bible; not every church preaches the Bible and therefore not every church has the true Gospel, because it is not preached.

Perhaps I may illustrate this from my own experience. I am a Gideon. Some years ago I gave a talk at what is usually described as an 'evangelical' Anglican church. In the talk I spoke about a man who was saved after reading 1 Timothy 1:15 in his hotel bedroom. At the end of the talk, having permission from the vicar, I gave a 5 minute Gospel talk using 1 Tim 1:15 to ask the congregation if they had seen themselves as sinners, repented and trusted in Christ, because our Lord came to save sinners, not righteous people. Having finished the talk, I went and stood by my display of Gideon Bibles. A lady came down the aisle to me and said, "Thank you so much for your talk; I never knew before why Jesus came!" True story! There were Bibles in the church, but there was no Gospel.

 

Since you like pointing out the flaws of all other denominations and not recognize the flaws in your own ,then you must think your Protestant fathers flawless- INFALLIBLE ! You do say you are Baptist after all, so I am correct to say protestant fathers yes?

Infallibility of course as not pertaining to the RCC head, but infallibility just the same as applied in definition . You think your protestant fathers are infallible? I mean you would have to, in order to, (from a denominational sect derived and built upon their core teachings ) believe them Infallible to point your finger at all the rest no?

I am nondenominational because (I, as I have stated hundreds of times in here), recognize the flaws in all and only keep precious gems But you, on the other hand from a denominational sect point your finger in condemnation at all others. So, is this not hypocritical? You denounce Papal Infallibility yet would not consider your fathers flawed. As many ardent RCs don't.

If you disagree with that assessment, then from what position ,if not Baptist, do you claim others to not have the true gospel?

Is it from the view point that your fathers have cast the beam from their eyes and are Infallible and therefore, because you believe what they say and you too are Infallible to decide others to not be?
That would mean you believe in the doctrine of Infallibility too, but for your fathers, right?

Point: Is it not hypocritical to denounce Papal Infallibility, yet claim it of your own? And if you do not believe that for your own (infallibility), they then being flawed are not the authority to speak from, you being a (Baptist Protestantism) and all. For a beam would still remain in your eye! You would have to remove the protestant beam first in order to see clearly to remove a Catholics. That goes for your Orthodox brother as well.

So do you believe the doctrine of Infallibility only applies to your fathers?

 

The" Infallible" MARTIN LUTHER:
Martin Luther, Israel, and the Jewish People
By ONE FOR ISRAEL (Messianic Jews in Israel)

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Luther is famous for propelling the Protestant Reformation into action, and also, less illustriously, for penning such scathing anti-Semitic writings that they inspired Hitler. So, was he a champion of faith? Or a vile anti-Semite?
Five hundred years ago today, Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the church in Wittenberg, no longer able to endure what had become a very twisted church doctrine. His “95 Theses” put forward two central beliefs—that the Bible should be the primary religious authority and that salvation can be obtained by faith alone, not by deeds. He railed against the wicked practice of “indulgences” which essentially sold forgiveness for money. He also criticised the greed rampant in the Catholic church at the time:
“Why does not the pope” asked Luther, “whose wealth today is greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build the basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?”[1]
Good question, Luther. So far, so good.
Inspiring Christians to study the Bible
The Reformation in 1517 brought a revolution to the body of Messiah around the world in a very positive way. One of the blessings that arose was that (also thanks in part to the invention of the printing press and Bible translation which occurred around the same time) people started reading their Bibles for themselves. They could see in the pages of their own Bibles, in their own language, that there were many promises that Israel would be regathered to the land once more before Yeshua’s return. This led to a great awakening in eschatological interest and study of Biblical prophecy, particularly in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. As a result, many Christians and churches adopted a renewed interest in Israel, and in sharing the gospel with Jewish people both in Israel and abroad.
The Restorationist Movement (that eventually helped bring about the restoration of Israel) may not have developed or gained traction the way it did had it not been for Luther’s radical actions, which led many to study the Bible for themselves. By bucking slavish adherence to church tradition and doctrine he showed that, rather than being de facto dangerous, studying the Bible with a willingness to question assumptions was a good and right thing to do.
Initially, Luther encouraged Christians to honor the Jewish people
Luther felt certain that the reason Jewish people hadn’t been accepting Yeshua as Messiah was due to the failure of the church to present the truth adequately. In 1523 he wrote the book, “That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew”[2], encouraging Christians to adopt a kinder attitude towards their Jewish brethren:
“They have dealt with the Jews as if they were dogs rather than human beings; they have done little else than deride them and seize their property…. I hope that if one deals in a kindly way with the Jews and instructs them carefully from Holy Scripture, many of them will become genuine Christians and turn again to the faith of their fathers, the prophets and patriarchs. They will only be frightened further away from it if their Judaism is so utterly rejected that nothing is allowed to remain, and they are treated only with arrogance and scorn.”
“If the apostles, who also were Jews, had dealt with us Gentiles as we Gentiles deal with the Jews, there would never have been a Christian among the Gentiles. Since they dealt with us Gentiles in such brotherly fashion, we in our turn ought to treat the Jews in a brotherly manner in order that we might convert some of them. For even we ourselves are not yet all very far along, not to speak of having arrived.”
Martin Luther, “That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew”, 1523
Luther at this point displays a great respect for the Jewish people, and encourages fellow Christians to follow suit. He notes the place of honour given to the Jewish people in the Bible:
“When we are inclined to boast of our position we should remember that we are but Gentiles, while the Jews are of the lineage of Christ. We are aliens and in-laws; they are blood relatives, cousins, and brothers of our Lord. Therefore, if one is to boast of flesh and blood, the Jews are actually nearer to Christ than we are, as St. Paul says in Romans 9[:5]. God has also demonstrated this by his acts, for to no nation among the Gentiles has he granted so high an honor as he has to the Jews. For from among the Gentiles there have been raised up no patriarchs, no apostles, no prophets, indeed, very few genuine Christians either. And although the gospel has been proclaimed to all the world, yet He committed the Holy Scriptures, that is, the law and the prophets, to no nation except the Jews, as Paul says in Romans 3[:2] and Psalm 147[:19-20], “He declares his word to Jacob, his statutes and ordinances to Israel. He has not dealt thus with any other nation; nor revealed his ordinances to them.”…
“Therefore, I would request and advise that one deal gently with them and instruct them from Scripture; then some of them may come along. Instead of this we are trying only to drive them by force, slandering them, accusing them of having Christian blood if they don’t stink, and I know not what other foolishness. So long as we thus treat them like dogs, how can we expect to work any good among them?”
He was eager to start a new chapter of church history in which Christians would respect Jewish people as their “older brother”, saying that if he had been Jewish, seeing the way the church had been treating the Jews, he’d rather become a pig than a Christian. So, basically good, right?
From hater of corruption to a corrupted hater

But as the decades passed and it became clear to Luther that the spiritual blindness of the Jewish people[3] was not merely due to abuse at the hands of the church, his attitude changed. As many have noted, Luther was a passionate and tempestuous man, prone to moods and depressions, and his state of mind towards the latter end of his life was not good. In his frustration, Luther wrote “Concerning the Jews and their Lies” in 1543[4], in which he advised the German princes to destroy synagogues, to burn their books and raze their houses. He wanted to forbid Jewish practice and teaching, and considered Jewish people to be “just devils and nothing more”. He wrote,
“Verily, a hopeless, wicked, venomous and devilish thing is the existence of these Jews who for fourteen hundred years have been, and still are, our torment and misfortune… Know, Christian, that next to the devil, thou has no enemy more cruel, more venomous and violent than a true Jew”.

Martin Luther, “The Jews and their Lies”, 1543
This contemptible book is eye-wateringly anti-Semitic, to the degree that even at the time many rejected it. Many Lutherans ignored it, choosing the approach of his earlier book over the scalding hatred of his latter work, and even his Latin translator modified it, but Adolf Hitler landed upon it and considered Luther a genius.
As we follow the evil progress of the Nazis and the steps against the Jewish people, burning synagogues and destroying homes, it is hard to ignore the fact that Hitler was following the advice Luther had given the German princes all those years ago to a tee. Hitler used Luther’s words to justify his actions as “Christian”, and declared Luther the greatest warner of the German people against the Jews.
What is Luther’s legacy?
The Holocaust memorial museum in Jerusalem, Yad Vashem, catalogues the descent into hell from propaganda to extermination camps. It creates a journey through the horrific realities of history and leads out to a panoramic view of modern Jerusalem. Luther sadly had a part to play in the Holocaust, but he also also encouraged Christians to read their Bible afresh and think for themselves, which led to many realising that God had in no way finished with Israel. The numerous prophecies about God’s intention to restore the people to the land became evident to many influential Christians, without whose help Israel may not have been reestablished.
Perhaps instead of trying to assign Luther either to the good books or the trashcan, we should soberly note the human capacity – even among believers – for both good and evil.
It is God who will have to sort through all this at the end of time, not you or I. It is hard to say that Luther was “not a real Christian”. He was. Yet he was deeply flawed. We all are. From the story of Luther, we can see the profound effect one life can make, for good or for bad. We can see how our words carry power and influence that may go way beyond what we could ever imagine. I wonder what Luther himself would make of the outworkings of history, if he could trace the impact his words had had on the church, on the people of Israel, and on the world.

Seems to me a lot of hay, wood and straw is burning concerning Martin Luther.

 

.I know my heavenly Father is Infallible. I look at all the denominations , not taking all their "fathers" word for it when they make claims concerning people and the gospels. I do believe in the anthem cry "scripture alone- Sola Scriptura"!

But it seems the premise for this for protestants is not really scripture alone, but rather scripture as they see it. Therefore, God uses it against them. And remember, to develop an anthem and shout such as 'Sola Scriptura" in term would have to be found in the foundation to begin with. So actually Christ coined the phrase, for scripture says:
All Scripture is God-Breathed 2 Timothy 3:15-17
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…
The Godly are No More Psalms12;5-7
…5“For the cause of the oppressed and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise,” says the LORD. “I will bring safety to him who yearns.” 6The words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace, like gold purified sevenfold. 7You, O LORD, will keep us; You will forever guard us from this generation.…
Denominations are falling, like the walls of Jericho.

Denominational minded people's views are solely the views of their fathers. They do not look to see if there is a basis for an other's view. They fight and quarrel and divide the Word of God as if dividing the garments of Christ. A new season is coming, the end time Elect who are called out will make up the end time bride!

 

See what I mean?

 

YUP!

 

Do you really think that Protestants in general and baptists in particular, think that their' founding fathers' were infallible?
Then you know nothing about Protestantism and less about Baptists. Do you think nobody knows about Luther's The Jews and their Lies? It is in every biography of Luther I know. It is not we who deceive ourselves that we have infallible popes and infallible magisteria.

 

CONTINUED FROM POST #50
Now brings us to the apparition at Lords. Protestants will accept no apparition. Yet scripture alone states:



1 John 4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are
gone out into the world.



2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:



This therefore means all spirits, the spirit in men and a spirit in general (apparition). It is fact that within the Ro-
sary this confessing that John says is necessary is there. No EVIL SPIRIT CAN CONFESS IT. This is the
means to test, that a believer be not duped! Mother Mary guided Bernadette in reciting the Rosary and therefore
confessed Christ has come in the flesh!

She told Bernadette, 'I am the Immaculate Conception". So it would seem that the centuries prior , the thought
of this was inspired by the Holy Spirit. But was wrongly defined by a Harlot Pope. He is a Harlot because he
did not use the scriptures to properly define it, but defined it of himself. so, she is the Immaculate Conception. I
can prove it with scripture alone and have many times in here. Yet even with Sola Scriptura , if not all, most
reject my finds. Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants alike are in for a revolution, a reformation, as not seen
since the Jews experienced the Messiah's first coming. The last Church, is sister to the first, and is part of the
Immaculate Bride, the first and the last are the only unsoiled truth!

 

The bottom line is that we teach and hold to the true Gospel, and Rome does not!

 

How many here have railed against Calvin for being a "murderer?"

 

The Gospel of Jesus is not the same one Rome teaches!

 

To whom is this plea addressed?

Madonna is not invoked in other than RCC and maybe Orthodox groups.
Eucharistic adoration is unknown to non-RCC/Orthodox groups.
Praying to Apostles, Souls of Purgatory, etc. related to RCC doctrine.

I conclude that you are challenging your fellow Roman Catholics to pray/fast to ward off the event you predict is immanent.

 

? You better read.

 

What do you think I should read?

 

Wrong again! Many Anglicans have Eucharistic Adoration, ask for the intercession of the saints, perpetual adoration of the Eucharist, etc .





Oh, and here is a Lutheran Benedictine Monastery that asks for the intercession of the saints, adoration of the Eucharist, etc.
Saint Augustine's House . Yes, please do more reading!

 

Yes, it is!!!!

Btw, how many times have you had to replace your worn out exclamation point!!!

 

Thanks for your response. I will give myself more escape routes in the future!