Vaticanus

I'm already familiar with that. I asked you NOT for information on those men, but proof that readings in the Vaticanus came directly from them. Reading 101.

 

rsr, this link has a good chunk on what you're looking for:

http://sxws.com/charis/KJV-1.htm

 

Some of my Bibles do.

I even have a Bible that took out all the "demons"! Is this Bible trying to deny their existence??? Please advise!

 

quote: And did you know the canon of the Bible you use was ESTABLISHED BY CATHOLICS???

And was banned and still are banned as per the council of Trent.The RCC(and another well know sect)has anathematized any MSS compiled by Erasmus,or Bible translated from them.

I'm not talking about WHICH MSS... I'm talking about the BOOKS of the Bible, what's in it and what's not. And many things "banned" by THE Catholix are in use by PROTESTANTS.

Hank D...

Here are some helpful sites:

http://www.anabaptists.org/history/howwegot.html

http://www.catholicapologetics.org/ap030700.htm

The first site doesn't name the RCCs, but the 2nd is a Catholic site. You'll see they contain almost the same info. The RCC(humanly speaking) established the canon before they wandered off into heresy-land.

 

More advanced revelation? The Greek has two words "daimonion" (demon) and "diabolos" (devil).

 

I think I just heard every one of these words on a radio show with Texe Marrs interviewing Peter Ruckman!

 

Glory2God
"Erasmus got saved, just as did Luthur."
"
Nowhere in the writings of Desiderius Erasmus, or his contemporaries is there talk about his salvation. We simply don't know he was saved or not. We do know that Luther despised Erasmus.

"the Vaticanus was and is bound. It has readings that came directly from Valitinus, Origen, Marcion, Arius, Philo"
"
Philo was a Jew who lived in Alexandria before the birth of Christ, Marcion on the other hand was staunchly anti-jewish (to the point of rejecting the whole Old testament and most the New one as well) and lived a great distance from Alexandria. Arius lived in Alexandria but got his theological education in Antiochia, his theological views conflicted rather sharply with both orthodox Christianity and of Marcionism. Origenes Adamantios meanwhile got tortured rathere severely because he was an orthodox Christian.

"I've got a copy of them both. As a matter of fact, if you read the preface of the Majority Text yhey tell you straight up Tischendorf fished it out of a garbage can"
"
You seem to be confusing the Majority Text and the Minority Text here.

 

First of all you are right to admit that the TR and Majority text are not the same. The Majority text is better since it was produced form many more documents rather than a few.

You are not understanding the complete stroy of Tishcendorf's discovery though. Tishchendorf has slanderously be called an apostate, but the truth is he was fighting against the rationalistic attacks of the German rationalists. He wrote a tract in 1864 in which he wrote these words: "May my writing serve this end: to make you mistrust those novel theories upon the Gospels- or rather, against them- which would persuade you that the wonderful details which the Gospels give of our gracious Savior are founded upon ignorance or deciet."

His desire was for a refutation of thoes trying to destroy the faith of the Christian world. Regarding his discovory of the Sinaticus:

It was Tischendorf's aim to to "prove the early existence and authenticity of the Gospels". He therefore traveled to many libraries of Europe (of which many are found in Monastaries). He also whent to Jerusalem, Constantinople, Cairo, and many other cities of the east. He learned that there were some Byzantine manuscripts at St. Catherines Monastary on the Mt. Sini.

In May of 1844 he worte what actually took place there: "In visiting the monastery in the month of May 1844, I percieved int he middle of the great hall a large and wide basket full of old parchments; nad the librarian who was a man of information told me that two heaps of papers like these, mouldered by times, had been already committed to the flames. What was my surprise to find amid this heap of papers a considerable number of sheet of a copy of the Old Testament in Greek whcih seemed to me to be one of the most ancient that I had ever seen. The authorities of the monastery allowed me to possess myself of a third of these parchments, or about forty three sheets, all the more readily as they were designated for the fire. But I could not get them to yeld up possesion of the remainder. The too lively satisfaction which I had displayed had aroused their supicions as to the value of the manuscript.

The monks had no idea what they were buring! They had a habit of burning old book for heat, but God in His providence spared these particular documents. Tischendorf returned to the monastary in in January and there was given a package by a steward who said he had read the OT too. The package contained not just the sheets that Tischendorf had read, but 346 parchments total. There diplomatic negotiations he was able to obtain the codex. No you know the rest of the story!

 

The Vaticanus had been in the Vatican library for many years. It was recorded in the catalouge of the Vatican library since 1475. Many other Greek manuscripts were there as well, including some fo Byzantine origen. To claim that somthing is "corrupt" simply because it was found in Rome is ridiculous. The TR was put together by a RC scholar, and the KJV translators were Anglican. Not exactally your friendly Fundamental Baptist pastor!

 

Being they came from Constantinople, the seat of power for the Byzantine church (now the Eastern Orthodox), they do not come from a faithful church. The Byzantine church was just an eastern counterpart to the Roman Church, and even had its own pope of a sort.

 

The area of Asia Minor historically evolved into the Byzantine Empire (generally speaking).

Asia Minor : http://encarta.msn.com/map_701510270/Asia_Minor.html

Map of Revelation : http://pacificcoast.net/~muck/rev/revmap.html

Map of Byzantine Empire : http://byzantium.seashell.net.nz/articlemain.php?artid=mapbase_1092

Paul's missionary journeys and his epistles are mainly to and from cities, churches and folks in Asia minor (Thessalonica, Ephesus, Galatia, etc).

Some feel (myself included) that it is reasonable to expect that the apographs of the NT autographs from the churches where Paul ministered to the gentiles would be the better preserved texts... some not.

HankD

 

The KJVOs ignore the possibility that GOD PRESERVED Sinaiticus, allowing Tischendorf to obtain it to be carried to the top Bible-printing capitals of the world.

If Vaticanus was so corrupt that God didn't want it used, why did He allow it to continue to exist? The early RCC burned every writing they believed corrupt or heretical, but they KEPT Vaticanus. I wonder why they didn't burn it long before 1475? If they DID like it, why didn't they extol it?

Again, could GOD have been behind it?

 

Sure,read 2 Corinthians 4:4.