Vaticanus

Thank you for this very enlightening comment.Since you have the preface to the Majority Text before you could you give us the exact quote and reference where it says that Tischendorf "fished it out of a grbage can" please? I think it would add to the debate to see where "they" point that out.

[ February 17, 2005, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

4His_glory
"The Byzantine church was just an eastern counterpart to the Roman Church, and even had its own pope of a sort. "
"
The emperor of the (Eastern) Roman empire to be exact.

RSR
TR-KJV-MT?
The TR is the the corrected edition of Erasmus's Greek NT put out by the Dutch printshop Elsevier. In a broader sense it also covers all reprints of that edition and all later editions using that same text.
The most important TR translation is the Statenbijbel of 1637. The TR was NOT used in the making of the KJV.

 

The KJV is a kind of eclectic text whose source documents are 99 percent Byzantine type texts with a smattering of Vulgate influences.

Scrivener tried to put it all together in his TR of 1894, but I have read that it also is not aligned 100% of the time, though I haven't found any anomalies after a multitude of comparisons.

Even the infamous Revelation 22:19 is "book of life" (BiBlou) in the Scrivener TR.

Can someone document any KJV/Scrivener inconsistencies?

HankD

 

Thank you for the insight. You are right about the TR not being used in the translation of the KJV. I was going to mention that myself but I was still searching for the actuall date it first appeared in print.

If my memory serves me right, the KJV translators used a text of Erasmian origen, plus a few others that they had access to, of which were Byzantine text type.

By the way, people seem to believe that there are only two text types, Byzantine and Alexandrian, when in actuallality there are others such as Ceasarean.

 

That is right rsr, it is one of the main arguments of the KJVOs, but as we have seen in this thread, it not a valid argument since it was not faithful churches that used/preserved (I thought God preserved not man) the codexs used.

 

Resonded by:

I am not KJVO and this is my position with one qualification concerning "faithful".

Both inspiration and preservation are cooperative works between God and man. God of course being the instigator.

Inspiration of the original manuscripts by human beings who were "moved" by the Holy Spirit has been elaborated upon since antiquity.

Preservation is only now being thrashed about in the church (apart from the RCC historical view of the Vulgate written in "the language of heaven").This also requiring God and human instruments (scholars, scribes and translators).

Then finally, "faithful churches" is somewhat subjective. My point is that the Byzantine type mss sprung up out of the churches of the original mission field of the Apostle Paul regardless of their "faithfulness" (whatever that is). Many of his epistles written directly to these churches and therefore IMO "reasonable" but not guaranteed that the Byzantine apographs would be more accurate to the originals than the Alexandrian text types.

HankD

[ February 17, 2005, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Resonded by:

I am not KJVO and this is my position with one qualification concerning "faithful".

Both inspiration and preservation are cooperative works between God and man. God of course being the instigator.

Inspiration of the original manuscripts by human beings who were "moved" by the Holy Spirit has been elaborated upon since antiquity.

Preservation is only now being thrashed about in the church (apart from the RCC historical view of the Vulgate written in "the language of heaven").

Then finally, "faithful churches" is somewhat subjective. My point is that the Byzantine type mss sprung up out of the churches of the original mission field of the Apostle Paul regardless of their "faithfulness" (whatever that is). Many of his epistles written directly to these churches.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]First of all, were are we told in the Scriptures that preservation is a cooperative work between God and man? We are never told how God will preserve His Word, only that He would indeed preserve it.

Secondly, who evangelized the region of Alexandria? Paul was not the only proclaimer of the Gospel in his day. Does sombody want to find this out? I don't have the time now to do so, but is sure would be interesting to know.

 

Via His chosen people.

Romans 3
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Psalm 68
11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.

To name a couple of Scriptures.

It is not found in Scripture but the evangelization resulting in the advent of the local churches in Asia Minor is recorded in the Book of Acts.

HankD