Vegetarianism - The Highest Moral Ideal

[Grace]

I only personally know 2 vegetarians (well, 3 if you count the girl I know that doesn't consider peperoni meat)
Both of the vegetarians that I know, I like. I'd like them anyway, because one of them is my Mama. But, they are the type of vegetarians that are vegetarians by choice, and they don't try to make other people abide by that choice. (this isn't one of those situations that "really" matters anyway ) The other girl, I get irritated with because I'll be just about to eat my nice tasty Zaxby's Chicken fingers, when she says after a bite of cold lettuce, "Oh, I just don't know HOW you can eat that! Meat is just so gross!" I told her one time that the last time I checked peperoni and Wendy's Chicken Nuggets were both considered meat.

 

[MarciontheModerateBaptist]

It seems she has a hypocrisy problem... I am not an advocate of a new law of vegetarianism. As Christians, we are emancipated, but it is not a reckless emancipation. Paul says to the free: (1) everything is permissable, but not necessarily beneficial; and (2) one should seek the good of others rather than one's own good. The conscience is free, but it is to be used responsibly. In my case, in light of the information I have, it is wrong to eat meat. F.F. Bruce, a NT scholar writes, "A truly emancipated spirit such as Paul's is not in bondage to its own emancipation."

Daniel Payne

Daniel

 

[superdave]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Daniel,
I don't think there is anything unclear about the above passage. Paul says nothing is to be refused! No need to figure out what specific dogma he was speaking against, his words and his meaning are clear.

Also see Col. 2:16-17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ."

There is documented science on both sides as to the health of eating meat. As well as some of the negative consequences of eating a Vegan diet. Many of the problems you attribute to meat eating are more a product of the type and quantity of meat consumed by many Americans. There are many factors. The Scientific community goes back and forth about the health of eating eggs, butter vs. Vegetable oil, consuming alcohol, etc.

All things are lawful, and it is true that we have to be careful, Paul also says not all things are expedient for me. To sit down and eat a pound of bacon every morning with my Biscuits and Gravy, and my side of Ham would not be very healthy, but if you are balanced in your diet, and exercise, eating meat itself is not going to put me in the grave with Heart Disease.

 

[Clint Kritzer]

I wish to interject here that Mr. Payne's statements are his OPINION. He has stated that his argument is not scripturally based but is rather what he "feels." The comments on page 4 of this thread will attest to that.

Mr Payne, I, personally, respect your right to an opinion. I simply wished to add clarification to anyone who may have tuned in late. I will allow this subject to continue one more page before closing. Please, anyone offer any final thoughts if they wish.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

[MarciontheModerateBaptist]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I don't think there is anything unclear about the above passage. Paul says nothing is to be refused! No need to figure out what specific dogma he was speaking against, his words and his meaning are clear.

Also see Col. 2:16-17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Certainly you agree that in order to fully understand a passage, you have to understand the background. It's important to know what Paul was addressing. He is also confronting specifics in Colossians. Some of the Christian Jews thought eating meat offered to idols was wrong and refrained; others partook. Paul is saying, "Regradless of your meal choices, have unity." I think it's a good word for us as well.

Daniel

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: paynedaniel ]

 

[Grace]

Hmmm,
All this chatter about eating meat or not eating meat is making me hungry. Anybody for a nice, noncontroversial slice of pizza? I'll even spring for extra cheese and no meat OR vegetables, just to keep everyone happy.

 

[MarciontheModerateBaptist]

I'm in for the veggie pizza - with soy cheese of course

Daniel

 

[Grace]

GAG! Soy cheese! Sorry, We'll have to get you a seperate pizza.

Just kidding, If you knew me, you'd know that I don't take a whole lot of things seriously (except God, He is serious to me)

 

[MarciontheModerateBaptist]

It has been a pleasure discussing the issue with you all. I think Clint is going to close the topic down, so I wanted to post one last thing:

"The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid, the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder's den. They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea." - Isaiah 11:6-9

O God, enlarge within us the sense of fellowship with all living things, our brothers the animals to whom thou gavest the earth as their home in common with us. We remember with shame that in the past we have exercised the high dominion of man with ruthless cruelty so that the voice of the earth, which should have gone up to thee in song, has been a groan of travail. May we realize that they live not for us alone but for themselves and thee, and that they love the sweetness of life. - St. Basil the Great, cited in The Complete Book of Christian Prayer, Continuum, 1996, p.145.

God Bless,
Daniel

 

[Daniel David]

Daniel, you truly are a bizarre fella. You could actually say that one might be pro-life but not for capital punishment? Why wouldn't they be? Then all this about killing our somewhat related animal friends? Do you just sit around and read a verse and then formulate all your ideas or what? I haven't been able to figure out where you even get this stuff.

First, animal eating didn't take place before the fall and it won't in the new heavens and new earth becuase death won't be present. It has nothing to do with the value of animals or us being more inclined to be earthly minded or any of that.

Second, you very close equation of animals to people is dangerous. Animals cannot be redeemed. The Son came to earth as a man. He rode an animals back and served them as food. He didn't try to communicate with them.

Third, pro-life and pro-capital punishment go hand in hand. They both value the lives of people. Jesus and Paul taught capital punishment. Maybe your jesus didn't.

Fourth, unity is impossible without agreement. Jesus prayed that we would be one. How? By God's Word because His Word is truth. You do not even acknowledge that. How could there possibly be unity?

PreachtheWord
Unapologetically refuse to unite with apostates.

 

[Kathy]

 

[Pastor Larry]

Did this topic really generate five pages of discussion????? What next???

 

[Clint Kritzer]

I know Pastor Larry, can you believe it? I must say, my heart jumped into my throat and I let out a groan when I saw it reactivated on the homepage LOL.

- Clint

 

[MarciontheModerateBaptist]

I'm through (exhausted), Clint. I don't mind if you close it.

Daniel