Vengeance = Wrath?

I suspect that with atonement, God does not look upon us so much as sinners as he looks upon us as dirty dishes that can be cleaned of the dirt, and restored to "new" condition. Those who refuse to be cleansed will be cast out, those who get cleaned are "restored treasure".

 

Hello Pastor Larry.

I am English and I read the scriptures in English. When I use the dictionary I use it to find out what a particular word means. If I get a meaning from the dictionary that does not conflict with my understanding of scripture but reinforces my understanding of scripture then I need go no further with that word. That's sensible is it not?
The translators have already done the hard work, I do not know Greek or Hebrew, English is hard enough, why should I not trust the Lord that He has served me well in my own language?
I know there are nuances to find but never words to change. I have no authority to change the meaning of any word or sentence I find a difficulty with in the English translation. The clever clogs have told me in English what a Greek or Hebrew word means and that is that. If there are differing words used in more than one bible then I go to discover the correct meaning of the word so as to avoid conflict. I know the dictionary falls short sometimes on the Theological meaning but I do not use it to discover Theological meanings but the meanings of words.
Also, as I think you may agree, it matters not how Greeky and Hebrewish you can be but that, 1 Cor 1:28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are,

I am an uneducated man and I do alright? For an uneducated man that is?

Correct any error you see me make whilst using dictionary definitions, or any other kind, and I will correct myself if I am wrong.

Does that answer your question as far as I am concerned Pastor Larry?

johnp.

 

You must understand that English dictionaries give definitions of English words. The Bible was written in Greek or Hebrew, and the definitions that matter are Greek and Hebrew. In addition, the discipline of theology has invested words with particular theological meaning that the dictionaries do not always brings out.

BTW, 1 Cor 1:28 is about salvation ... God chose lowly men to save to confound the wise men who are not saved by the simple message of the cross. It has nothing to do with understanding words.

 

Then by all means when there is a dispute concerning meanings, Post the theological definition so that we all have a common definition from which to work.

 

Hello Pastor Larry.

My bible wasn't written in Greek or Hebrew, it's written in English!

Not to me. I need to know what the English word means before I start messing about in Strong's. But then Strong's gives me definitions of Greek words in English and I don't speakie the English very well so even after looking up the definitions I will still need to define the definition using the dictionary don't you?

That I know. If a definition from the dictionary conflicts with my beliefs then I am aware of it immediately. I said this. I need to know what the English word means not the Theological meaning. The Theological meaning I get from the bible. The Roman Catholic church has millions of Theological definitions in Greek and Hebrew and Latin, am I supposed to believe them because they deal with the Greek, Hebrew and Latin?

I know that the 1 Cor 1:28 scripture is about salvation but it is one thing being saved as a lowly simple man it is another thing to become a genius with words. Where I come from we don't know nothing about words. If I was simple when I was saved I am still simple after it am I not?
Some of the definitions were worked out in Latin. What am I to do now?
Whether you get the meaning of words from Strong's, do they do Latin, you are still only accepting the definitions you believe are correct are you not and those definitions are only definitions of men anyway except where they are right?
What am I to do with the word Trinity? It's not Greek or Hebrew. If I look it up in the dictionary it gives a range of meanings. I define my Theology scripture on scripture and where I find scripture against scripture I know something is wrong but I need to know exactly how the English word is defined otherwise I will not know where I am wrong.
Does that make sense? If we are going to communicate with each other we must have a common language. Where I come from instead of saying, "Can I borrow." We say, "Can I lend." Which as you know has the opposite meaning. That's what I have to contend with, myself and my education.

Look, the other day a certain person gave a dictionary definition of faith with the rider that the definition contained no 'doing' word. He was trying to prove that faith is not a work. In this I knew he was wrong because Jesus said it is a doing thing, JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." I learnt what a colon was for! 54 years old and just learnt what a colon is used for. A breakthrough for me. I have understood a punctuation mark praise the Lord.
So no dictionary definition was needed by me to know that he was wrong, regardless of the fact that the word is a verb, Jesus said it is a work. Jesus defined the word for me. The word is defined thoughout scripture. To trust, to have no reliance on man but only in Him.
You see I don't really understand what a transitive verb is but I know faith is a work because Jesus said it is.
I think that was the other time you complained about dictionaries. I can't remember the word I defined, unless it was the colon, I'll go and look it up tomorrow if I can.

See you later.

johnp.

 

Johnp, Check it out! Not one of these translations uses the phrase, "to believe". and No, "to" is not implied in any of them either. So the essence of "believe" cannot be "a work", it must be something that one is to possess! .

 

The work of God is "that we believe".

Jesus completed that WORK of God on the Cross when He Cried out, "It is Finished". The last remaining task that the work of God required was Atonement for SIN so that man, by believing all the rest of the WORK OF GOD, could Pass from death into Life Everlasting, not obligated to the penalty for sin which is death. Jesus paid that penalty ONCE, for ALL. There is no other name under heaven whereby we MUST be Saved!

 

Ok Wes here is the revised reading.

JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: believe in the one he has sent."

It remains a work.

johnp.

 

Hi LohnP;
Yes it is a work but it's the work of God not our selves.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

ILUVLIGHT.

Go on, what do you mean?

johnp.

 

JohnP;

Very well;
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

This was the question that brought this statement they wanted to work His works;

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Thus belief in God is a work of God not a work of Man. So when you say that if man has faith before regeneration you all claim this is works for Salvation. Not so. We aquire faith from hearing God's word this is a requirement for Salvation. and it is not the work of man.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike