VeriChip = Mark Of The Beast ?

[Larry]

VeriChip = Mark Of The Beast ?

http://208.55.176.137/prodservpart/verichip.html

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_verichipfamily020219.html

Signatory countries to the GATT AND NAFTA Treaties are required to implement the enumeration at birth program as part of their agreeing to abide by the terms of the treaties.

In terms of population, the world's 10 largest countries which have a social security numbering system are:

1. China 1,210,000,000
2. India 968,000,000
3. United States 268,000,000
4. Indonesia 210,000,000
5. Brazil 165,000,000
6. Russia 148,000,000
7. Pakistan 132,000,000
8. Japan 126,000,000
9. Bangladesh 125,000,000
10. Nigeria 107,000,000

Followed by the next 15 largest countries: Germany, Mexico, Italy, France, Philippines, Turkey, Thailand, Egypt, Spain, South Korea, Poland, Iran, Burma, El Salvador, and Ethiopia, each with a population of between 30 and 80 million people.

With the inclusion of the enumeration at birth provision in GATT and NAFTA, the following countries now have the social security numbering system in place.

Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Andorra, Antigua-Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belgium, Belize, Benin, Bermuda, Bolivia, Botswana, Brazil, British Virgin Islands, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Burma (Myanmar), Burundi, Cameroon, Canada, Cape Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Chile, China, Colombia, Congo (Brazzaville), Congo (Kinshasa), Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Croatia, Cuba, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Equatorial Guinea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Finland, France, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Grenada, Guatemala, Guernsey, Guinea, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jersey, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea-South, Kuwait, Kyrgystan, Latvia, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Mauritius, Mexico, Micronesia, Federated States of Moldova, Monaco, Morocco, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Panama, Papua, New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia and Montenegro, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda, Ukraine, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, Western Samoa, Yemen, Zambia, and Zimbabwe

Tony Blair and other world leaders were urged to lead a campaign for universal registration...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/06/04/nbaby04.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/06/04/ixhome.html

 

[Michael C. Lewis]

Hi Guy,
Okay, I'll finally admit it. I am very much of the pretrib, premil persuasion. I've not responded much on "last days" threads because I'm not as learned on Biblical prophecy as many of you are. But, I do hold doggedly to the rapture of the church -- 7-year tribulation -- 1000 year millenial reign (in that order!) school of thought.

VeriChip = Mark of the beast?

Possibly. But even if it's not, it makes me nervously reponder George Orwell's "1984"!
And, I believe the Bible prophecies a coming world government.

I've got another one for you:
Cloning = Image of the beast?

And, let's not forget that the Temple Committee has found the kosher red heifer to purify their as yet not built temple with!

Things is comin' together!

In Christ,
Mike

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Michael C. Lewis:
And, let's not forget that the Temple Committee has found the kosher red heifer to purify their as yet not built temple with!

The last time this was reported in 1997, a year and half later, the calf was declared unclean. members.ozemail.com.au/~adamgosp/heifer.htm

Ken

 

[Charlie]

I've read several articles on the VeriChip over the last few months. I find it an interesting topic. (That is not to say that I firmly believe that this is the "Mark of the Beast.") I did, though, find some of the articles an interesting read. For those who are interested I'll post a few quotes and link the articles.

In the linked article I found several statements interesting.

</font>

1. Newer versions of the VeriChip will hold up to a megabyte of programmable data, and some may include a global positioning tracking feature.(1)

   </font>

2. The first concern is that it will fall into the hands of an evil and oppressive state... If you're thoroughly known, then you can be thoroughly controlled, because they'll know more about you than you want to be known.(quoting Laurie Zoloff, a bioethicist in San Francisco)

   </font>

3. There's another issue: Could the chip ever become mandatory, like an inoculation?

   </font>

4. The demand for products that add safety and security to everyday life is particularly strong in Latin America as a result of its political, economic, and social climate. (quoting Richard J. Sullivan, chairman and CEO of Applied Digital Solutions)

   </font>

WorldNetDailey has been following this "thing" for a few years and their article is rather long and includes a brief history of Applied Digital Solutions development of this VeriChip. They also had some interesting quotes.(2)

</font>

1. Applied Digital Solutions is also pushing use of the chip for emergency and security applications, to "enhance present forms of ID," to enable search-and-rescue operations, and assist in various law enforcement activities. The company contends that its technology is superior to biometric technologies, pointing out that implantation makes it a "tamper-proof" means of identification, "substantially diminishing theft, loss, duplication or counterfeit."

   </font>

2. In five years, Sullivan [Applied Digital Solutions CEO] said he can see the chips being used in children, the elderly, prisoners, and by employers at facilities such as airports and nuclear plants. Society in general could use them instead of ATM or credit cards. (quoting Deborah Circelli, Palm Beach Post write)

   </font>

CATO Institute had an article, (I realize it is critical of the VeriChip, but she does make some interesting points), about where this is leading.(3)

</font>

1. Why bother with national ID cards?... Why not implant a microchip under everyone's skin?

   </font>

2. If we mean to fully protect our security we should immediately seek federal legislation to establish standards for the implantation of microchips uniquely identifying each and every individual residing in this country, linked to central databases that could protect all Americans against terrorism.

   </font>

3. he system could be voluntary at first, to allow time for Americans to get used to the idea.

   </font>

4. Think of it: a single microchip linked to a person's medical records as well as financial, tax, employment, Social Security, welfare, criminal and other records--along with appropriate biometric identifiers.

   </font>

5. Over half of the population now supports some form of national identification. If Americans accept a National ID system as they accepted SSNs, and if the intrusiveness of such a system expands as did government-mandated SSN usage, ten years from now the idea of a national microchip system may not seem as alien and repugnant as it does today. As with SSNs, people will get used to it.

   </font>

Pascal Smet, "the head of Belgium's independent asylum review board," made some interesting comments about the need for an international ID system. (4)
</font>[*]

Soon a unique "biometric identifier" of the card - a retinal scan, fingerprint, or as with our soldiers and criminals, a DNA sample - will replace forgeable cards altogether. This, according to Smet, will "give people dignity by giving them an identity" even if their papers (as in, "May I see your papers, pleeeze!") get lost or destroyed.

Even Andy Rooney, tired of the hassles at the airports, have "endorsed" some type of VeriChip for identification. (5)
</font>[*]

We need some system for permanently identifying safe people... I wouldn't mind having something planted permanently in my arm that would identify me.

I find these articles interesting in light of Bible Prophecy. It is somewhat interesting that these types of things are being discussed as the Middle East continues to boil.

I hope you enjoy the articles.

Charlie

(1) Even the article in the LATimes stated: "Applied Digital Solutions Inc., the maker of what it calls the VeriChip, says that it will soon have a prototype of a much more complex device, one that is able to receive GPS satellite signals and transmit a person's location." http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-050902chipped.story

(2) http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26316

(3) http://www.cato.org/dailys/02-07-02.html

(4) http://www.smh.com.au/breaking/2001/12/14/FFX058CU6VC.html ALSO FOUND IN THIS ARTICLE: http://www.frontpagemag.com/columnists/ponte/2001/ponte12-19-01.htm

(5) http://www.cbsnews.com/now/story/0,1597,328752-412,00.shtml

 

[dp]

I don't think the verichip is the mark of the beast, itself... a precursor maybe...

 

[Miss Bobbie]

Ken, a red heifer was born this spring and has been certified as kosher. She's a cutie, too!

http://www.templeinstitute.org/current-events/RedHeifer/index.html

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Miss Bobbie:
Ken, a red heifer was born this spring and has been certified as kosher. She's a cutie, too!

I know, I've seen the picture. I have loved cows since I was a kid visiting at my grandma's.

Ken

 

[Larry]

A hypothetical question,

The year is 2005, the US has been hit by "suicide attacks" for years, children are being abducted and sold into slavery or worse. President Clinton has just announced her plan and it has been passed into law. All US citizens will be required to be implanted with a chip, if they want to travel over State Borders, participate in the new National Healthcare and or get a Federal job.

Would you get the implant?

I'm of the perturb persuasion, but I don’t think the above scenario and the rapture of the Church are mutually exclusive.

 

[Roy]

Larry: I Started a similar thread some time back and attracted more scoffers than anything. I am with "dp" in his oppinion that it is most likely a precursor to the "Mark of the Beast."

Roy

 

[Ransom]

Roy said:

I am with "dp" in his oppinion that it is most likely a precursor to the "Mark of the Beast."

Great. Does that mean we can start using bar codes and debit cards now, without feeling guilty?

[ June 10, 2002, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Baptist Vine]

Why is enumeration being linked to the mark of the beast?

The mark of the beast is one thing, but listing all these various countries proves nothing, and the huge list makes it look as if all these countries might be implementing a computer chip under the skin type of program, when this is really not the case, is it?

All that is being talked about under the various treaties is enumeration, which is entirely necessary to administer programs. Canada and the USA have been enumerating citizens since their respective beginnings.

Is there something under GATT and NAFTA besides mere enumeration that is not mentioned? Are GATT and NAFTA requiring citizens to actually have microchips?

I think these systems may eventually become precursors to the mark of the beast. But there is nothing inherently wrong with enumerating citizens to receive progam benefits, be it social security or the paycheque from your office.

I think that we will see increasing technology used to enumerate citizens for all kinds of program purposes, and that this will go on for a very long time, perhaps even a few or several generations, and there will be no ill effects from this, neither will there be anything unbiblical about this activity. After all, regarding the number of the beast, Revelation says it is simply a 'man's number' - implying an ordinary common nature. It will be an ordinary innocent system manipulated for evil one day.

One day, suddenly, a perfectly sound system used to administer programs ranging from drivers licences to social security, banking etc. will be usurped and used and linked to an illegal worship - everyone has heard the rest of the story.

I think by the time the real mark of the beast comes around people will be well accustomed to sophisticated enumeration systems linked to program administration and provision of services by government to citizens, and the ironic aspect is that in itself, this is not wrong - provision of services to legitimate citizens who qualify. After all, who would be against protecting against social security fraud, welfare fraud, proper documentation of drivers licences.

[ June 10, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Vine ]

 

[Johnv]

People said soc sec numbers were the mark of the beast when they came out. Same with Drivers licenses and state ID cards. Same with credit card numbers. Same with ATM cards. Same with the internet.

This arguement is nothing new, it's just being applied to new technology.

 

[Baptist Vine]

Further to my last post about the mark of the beast, I want to know what others think about the following.

I think the real mark of the beast, when it comes, has to be a conscious decision on the part of the person accepting the mark, where the mark is openly revealed and openly linked to worship of the beast.

In other words, you can't walk up to get your parking ticket, drivers licence or whatever stamped, and then someone tells you, "gotcha", you took the mark now, which seems to be the idea behind a lot of the warnings about current technology designed to monitor or regulate, ie don't take the (insert whatever technology), it may look legitimate, but it could be the mark.

People will certainly be forced and coerced, but the true nature of the mark, and the system it represents will be open and known. Christ's gospel is open, it's nature known and not hidden and Christ compels and exhorts with love. The mark of the beast will be representative of the 'anti gospel' suiting the 'anti Christ', it's nature will also be open and known, but where Christ exhorts with love from the cross, this final false gospel will force and coerce with hatred. Like a testing of Job, Satan will accuse God that people follow him because of what he does for them. Refuse them services of society, force and coerce, and see what happens - this will be the gauntlet thrown down between the ancient rivals.

What do others think about this?

[ June 10, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Vine ]

 

[Larry]

Originally posted by Johnv:
People said soc sec numbers were the mark of the beast when they came out. Same with Drivers licenses and state ID cards. Same with credit card numbers. Same with ATM cards. Same with the internet.

This arguement is nothing new, it's just being applied to new technology.

Are you sure you are not exaggerating just a little? “People said”….what people? I can see how some would see the SS Card as a precursor to the MOTB but Drivers licenses, state ID cards, credit card numbers. ATM cards and the Internet, where did you meet these people? What did they look like?

Obviously, for you to receive a mark in your forehead or hand, you would have to IMPLANT a device. The VeriChip fits that criterion…..Of course there are more things to it.

So can I assume that you would be one of the first to get the implant.?

Years before I ever got saved, I read the book of Revolution. At that time, with the keen mind of a unregenerate man, I thought "as far fetched as that sounds, if they ever come up with something like that I will know this stuff is true, and then get saved", man that was stooooped!

It blows my mind, that some of you seem to think this is no big deal.

The connection between enumerating people and the chip is; you have to be able to identify each and every individual person before you cam mark them. How many of you would be for implanting a chip in the Afghani prisoners in Cuba? How about paroled child molesters? It will probably take several years but I suspect the chip will take baby steps until everyone has to get one.

I'm not digging a bomb shelter or anything like that. I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have commended unto him.

[ June 10, 2002, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

[Larry]

[ June 10, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

[Pete Richert]

Obviously, for you to receive a mark in your forehead or hand, you would have to IMPLANT a device. The VeriChip fits that criterion…..Of course there are more things to it.

It wouldn't have to be IMPLANTED. If you walk up and mark on my forehead with a felt tip pen, it's a mark. The mark of the Beast could be as complicated as this VeriChip or as simple as a Tatoo.

Anyway, things are even more scary then this simple VeriChip. They are working with Monkeys here at Stanford at placing devices in the brain. In experiments I have seen, they can already sense where the Monkey is thinking about moving his arm, and then move a prostetic one for him. It is quite amazing. Its sounds pretty scary but if I was paralized I might be the first to sign up. When I was at Illinois Tech they already had devices that you could place in the head that helped the blind to see. It basically decoded the image and then communicated it to the brain the same way the eye would. It is still abit fuzzy (of course) but it is only a matter of time before we have that dude from star trek the NG in real life. It is all quite amazing from a medical standpoint and quite frightening from every other standpoint.

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Great. Does that mean we can start using bar codes and debit cards now, without feeling guilty?[/QB]

Whatever flicks your Bic, Hoss.

Roy

 

[Michael C. Lewis]

Originally posted by Baptist Vine:
Further to my last post about the mark of the beast, I want to know what others think about the following.

I think the real mark of the beast, when it comes, has to be a conscious decision on the part of the person accepting the mark, where the mark is openly revealed and openly linked to worship of the beast.

In other words, you can't walk up to get your parking ticket, drivers licence or whatever stamped, and then someone tells you, "gotcha", you took the mark now, which seems to be the idea behind a lot of the warnings about current technology designed to monitor or regulate, ie don't take the (insert whatever technology), it may look legitimate, but it could be the mark.

People will certainly be forced and coerced, but the true nature of the mark, and the system it represents will be open and known. Christ's gospel is open, it's nature known and not hidden and Christ compels and exhorts with love. The mark of the beast will be representative of the 'anti gospel' suiting the 'anti Christ', it's nature will also be open and known, but where Christ exhorts with love from the cross, this final false gospel will force and coerce with hatred. Like a testing of Job, Satan will accuse God that people follow him because of what he does for them. Refuse them services of society, force and coerce, and see what happens - this will be the gauntlet thrown down between the ancient rivals.

What do others think about this?

Baptist Vine,
I agree totally that a decision will have to be made by everyone whether they agree to take the MOTB, or not -- that is everyone that is left behind. I'll either be "raptured" or in heaven via death!

In Christ,
Mike

 

[Ransom]

Baptist Vine said:

I think the real mark of the beast, when it comes, has to be a conscious decision on the part of the person accepting the mark, where the mark is openly revealed and openly linked to worship of the beast.

Remember the culture in which John was writing Revelation. It was the Roman Empire. Slaveowners branded their slaves with an identifying mark signifying ownership. Worshipers of pagan deities branded themselves with marks signifying their favourite gods. Roman generals returned from battle with captives, whom they branded to mark as the spoils of war. Roman soldiers branded themselves with the insignia of their general to signify loyalty to him.

This is the sort of thing Paul had in mind when he told the Galatians, "I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus" (Gal. 6:17). Maybe he was referring to actual marks on his body that resulted from persecution he had suffered; maybe he was just speaking figuratively. In either case, he declared himself branded as one of Christ's soldiers/slaves/captives (any of which would be basically equivalent).

It is probably this kind of idea that John is conveying to his readers. Remember that this book was written originally to a first-century audience, and it had to be meaningful to them. The early Christians had no concept of Social Security numbers, bar codes, "smart cards," universal IDs, or implanted microchips. They would have understood the "mark of the beast" as a symbol, signifying that those who bear it are visibly, openly identified as the beast's possessions.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Larry:
what people?

Specifically, Religious broadcasters on radio. Back in the 80's, Hal Lindsay was warning against ATM cards and world world going to a cashless society as intended by Satan. He also referred to it as a conspiracy that began with Social Security cards. Of course, Hal Lindsay has not been alone in his opinions.

Hal Lindsay's messages have calmed down in recent years. Probably because none of his predictions of doom and gloom are coming to fruition.