verses that prove preservation

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Did I hear a mouse? Whose we! Your bible might not mean words, but mine does.

WHAT Bible are you using, Homebound? Serious, apart from Ruckman and Riplinger, I am at a loss to even find die-hard only sect who twist the simple words of Ps 12 into applying to preservation of the Word (much less a translation of the Word).

It simply does not say that. Not at all. We have a number of threads on that verse. You can opt to believe whatever you want, but please don't be obtuse. Be honest with the Word. There are OTHER verses that DO apply. Don't intentionally mistranslate to make a point.

That is what the Jehovah's witness, another sect, does regularly.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I would say no. But, neither did it begin or end in 1611. I don't know how you can scripturally make an argument that it did begin and end in 1611.

Joseph Botwinick

I'm saying that it begun in 1611. It begun when God said, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I believe that if God can create the heaven and earth, he can inspire and preserve his word that all generations can have. My particular generation was preserved in the King James Bible and that is exactly where it is today and I guarantee from this generation forever.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
Did I hear a mouse? Whose we! Your bible might not mean words, but mine does.

WHAT Bible are you using, Homebound? Serious, apart from Ruckman and Riplinger, I am at a loss to even find die-hard only sect who twist the simple words of Ps 12 into applying to preservation of the Word (much less a translation of the Word).

It simply does not say that. Not at all. We have a number of threads on that verse. You can opt to believe whatever you want, but please don't be obtuse. Be honest with the Word. There are OTHER verses that DO apply. Don't intentionally mistranslate to make a point.

That is what the Jehovah's witness, another sect, does regularly.

</font>[/QUOTE]I'm using the King James Bible brother Griffin. My Bible says, Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

 

[Daniel David]

I believe he can preserve his word also. Feel free to join the realm of reality with the rest of us. No one is questioning God's ability. I do question the way you say he preserved his word even though he didn't say it.

It is the manner in which he preserved his word that KJVOs miss reality, not whether or not he did preserve his word.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I would say no. But, neither did it begin or end in 1611. I don't know how you can scripturally make an argument that it did begin and end in 1611.

Joseph Botwinick

I'm saying that it begun in 1611. It begun when God said, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I believe that if God can create the heaven and earth, he can inspire and preserve his word that all generations can have. My particular generation was preserved in the King James Bible and that is exactly where it ends. </font>[/QUOTE]Let me get this straight, because I sure don't want to take you out of context or misrepresent you. Are you saying that "...God's inspired, infallible, inerrant word..." began and ended in 1611? If so, how do you support this in scripture seeing as the only scripture I know of that Paul had was the Old Testament in Hebrew?

There also seems to be a contradiction in what you said:

" I'm saying that it begun in 1611."

"I believe that if God can create the heaven and earth, he can inspire and preserve his word that all generations can have."

If the inspiration and preservation of God's word began in 1611, how could it then be inspired and preserved for all generations since those before 1611 would not have benefit from said inspiration and preservation?

"My particular generation was preserved in the King James Bible and that is exactly where it ends."

So is the argument that because it was what worked for your generation, that is the reason the KJV is the only inspired and preserved word of God? This seems like a weak, unscriptural argument which is based on experience, which can be different from person to person and be very unreliable in making generalizations. Where does scripture itself say that inspriation and preservation began and ended in 1611?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
I believe he can preserve his word also. Feel free to join the realm of reality with the rest of us. No one is questioning God's ability. I do question the way you say he preserved his word even though he didn't say it.

It is the manner in which he preserved his word that KJVOs miss reality, not whether or not he did preserve his word.

So you are asking me to believe what you believe to be God's way of preservation, right? So what version would that be today and is that version infallible, inerrant? Can I stand on that particular version or will I have to change when some other version comes along?

 

[Daniel David]

Homebound, I know you lack an answer for my question, I was just hoping you wouldn't be so obvious.

I hear there is a party at Homebound's house.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Homebound,

I think we may have posted at the same time and you might have missed my question addressed to you at the end of page three. Please go back and check it out.

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Homebound,

I think we may have posted at the same time and you might have missed my question addressed to you at the end of page three. Please go back and check it out.

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick

Sorry about that, here it is again, maybe a little clearer.

I'm not saying that it begun in 1611. It begun when God said, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I believe that if God can create the heaven and earth, he can inspire and preserve his word that all generations can have. My particular generation was preserved in the King James Bible and that is exactly where it ends. I don't believe that there will be another Bible that will take the place of the King James Bible. This generation/world will end first and then we can have it in Heaven along side it's creator.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

So because it was the word for your generation, that makes it the only right one? No offense, but that sounds a little self-centered to me. What scriptural evidence is there that the KJB is the only inspired and preserved Word of God?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Maybe your not getting me. God preserved his word from the beginning, how, I don't know. I only know how today and that is the King James Bible.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Maybe you are not getting me:

How do you know that the KJV is God's inspired and preserved word for today? How do you know that it is the only translation that is preserved? Where do you find this in scripture? Is it in Scripture anywhere? If not, then I must assume that this is:

1. Some worldly man-made doctrine.

2. Just your personal opinion which has no real bearing on what I should do as a Christian; i.e....while it is good for you and your preference, it is not by any means some standard that I should impose on my life.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Maybe you are not getting me:

How do you know that the KJV is God's inspired and preserved word for today? How do you know that it is the only translation that is preserved? Where do you find this in scripture? Is it in Scripture anywhere? If not, then I must assume that this is:

1. Some worldly man-made doctrine.

2. Just your personal opinion which has no real bearing on what I should do as a Christian; i.e....while it is good for you and your preference, it is not by any means some standard that I should impose on my life.

Joseph Botwinick

Since I don't know Greek and Hebrew and since the originals MSS are not around, I believe by faith that the King James Bible is God's inspired, infallible, inerrant, preserved word. The verses were listed and I believe the final product is the King James Bible. It is my final authority. I'm sorry that I don't have a scholar explanation for ya, but maybe that is what is wrong with some people around here, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7)

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I did not ask for a scholarly explanation. I asked for you to tell me where Scripture teaches that the KJV 1611 is the only true, inspired, and preserved Word of God. If you cannot show me from Scripture where this is taught, then I am left with the conclusion that:

1. KJVO is a man-made worldly doctrine with no Scriptual support whatsoever.

2. This is simply your conviction and preference, but has no bearing on my life as a Christian.

So, I will repeat my question: Can you find anywhere in Scripture that teaches that the 1611 King James Version is the only inspired and preserved Word of God?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I did not ask for a scholarly explanation. I asked for you to tell me where Scripture teaches that the KJV 1611 is the only true, inspired, and preserved Word of God. If you cannot show me from Scripture where this is taught, then I am left with the conclusion that:

1. KJVO is a man-made worldly doctrine with no Scriptual support whatsoever.

2. This is simply your conviction and preference, but has no bearing on my life as a Christian.

So, I will repeat my question: Can you find anywhere in Scripture that teaches that the 1611 King James Version is the only inspired and preserved Word of God?

Joseph Botwinick

There is no verse that says the King James Bible is God's word just like there is no verse that says the NIV, NASV, NKJV, etc. is God's word. But with the scripture that has been given by timothy1769 and myself, the King James hold true to those scriptures.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Finally, we agree about something, Homebound. There is no scripture which says that the KJV is the only true Word of God.

 

[RaptureReady]

And!?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
There is no verse that says the King James Bible is God's word just like there is no verse that says the NIV, NASV, NKJV, etc. is God's word.

AGREED!!!!!!!! Now that wasn't so hard, now was it? So tell me, then, is KJVO:

1. A worldly man-made doctrine with no scriptural support?

or

2. A personal preference for you which has no real bearing on me as a Christian?

But with the scripture that has been given by timothy1769 and myself, the King James hold true to those scriptures. [/QUOTE]

Can you show me from MVs where they do not hold true to these Scriptures? I am not arguing against the preservation of Scripture as it seems fairly clear that Scripture teaches this. What I am arguing against is the exclusivity of the KJV for this preservation as it seems fairly clear that Scripture does not teach this.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[RaptureReady]

Joseph Botwinick:
Can you show me from MVs where they do not hold true to these Scriptures? I am not arguing against the preservation of Scripture as it seems fairly clear that Scripture teaches this. What I am arguing against is the exclusivity of the KJV for this preservation as it seems fairly clear that Scripture does not teach this.

The KJB is taken from the TR where the modern versions are not, so they will disagree in many places. Here's a few.

Leviticus 6:21 NASV: "... as a soothing aroma to the Lord." KJV: "for
a sweet savour unto the Lord." (Whoever heard of soothing a sovereign
God!) The same is found in Leviticus 8:28, 17:6, and 23:18.

1 Kings 19:12 NASV: "... a sound of a gentle blowing." KJV: "... a
still small voice." (In the English language, there's a vast
difference between "a gentle blowing" and "a still small voice!" I'm
sure the reader will agree.)

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]