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verses that prove preservation
- Thread starter tinytim
- Start date
Can anyone name the logical fallacy here? </font>[/QUOTE]How about non sequitur for my guess. We might also include "assuming your conclusion to reach your conclusion" ... i.e., circular argumentation.
This is a laughable statement. I certainly hope it was a joke and not a serious attempt at interaction. I probably know better, but hoping is always fun.
The refutation of this argument is easy: Psa 12:6-7 have nothing to do with the preservation of God's word (as actual study of the passage shows) and the KJV is here. Therefore, this is a false argument. It does not logically follow.
Originally posted by Askjo:
If Psalms 12:6-7 do not refer to the preservation of God's word (referring to the Hebrew/Greek MSS), then the KJV would not be here.
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Then by your own words, this is the end of the Onlyist myth, as God has preserved His word in English in many versions BEFORE the AV 1611 was made. The proof? the present existence of those versions. They may not be regularly used any more, but they are there, for anyone to read. And each of those versions is different from any other, as is the KJV.
It stands to reason that if the Psalms in question are about preservation, then this means that God has preserved His word in one unbroken line ever since He first presented it to man, and since his word was already settled in heaven, this preservation is EARTHLY preservation. This means that when His word was first translated into English, the English-speaking people have had His word available ever since then. And that was LONG before 1604-1611. Since there have been many English versions of His word both before and after 1611, this is proof positive of two things: KJVO is wrong, and God presents His word AS HE CHOOSES.
If Psalms 12:6-7 do not refer to the preservation of God's word (referring to the Hebrew/Greek MSS), then the KJV would not be here.
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Then by your own words, this is the end of the Onlyist myth, as God has preserved His word in English in many versions BEFORE the AV 1611 was made. The proof? the present existence of those versions. They may not be regularly used any more, but they are there, for anyone to read. And each of those versions is different from any other, as is the KJV.
It stands to reason that if the Psalms in question are about preservation, then this means that God has preserved His word in one unbroken line ever since He first presented it to man, and since his word was already settled in heaven, this preservation is EARTHLY preservation. This means that when His word was first translated into English, the English-speaking people have had His word available ever since then. And that was LONG before 1604-1611. Since there have been many English versions of His word both before and after 1611, this is proof positive of two things: KJVO is wrong, and God presents His word AS HE CHOOSES.
If Psalms 12:6-7 do not refer to the preservation of God's word (referring to the Hebrew/Greek MSS), then the KJV would not be here. </font>[/QUOTE]You didn't even answer the question. You said "God promised that the KJV would be the "accurate" manifestation of the preservation of His Word." I asked where He made that promise. Psalms 12 says absolutely nothing about the KJV.
So I ask again, where did God say the words you put into His mouth? Your answer is very important for if I am right and you really are putting words in God's mouth then you are committing a terrible sin.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
If Psalms 12:6-7 do not refer to the preservation of God's word (referring to the Hebrew/Greek MSS), then the KJV would not be here. </font>[/QUOTE]Of course, we should all disregard the fact that the 1769 Revision is not the seventh English Translation of God's Holy Word.
Hey, wait a minute: neither is my 1611 Authorised Version, for that matter!!!!
Should we all be using the Geneva Bible? I have a copy of that too, if anybody needs to borrow it..........
How did God preserve His Word? A easy answer is the apographs. Without the apographs, the Word that God preserved is nowhere. You see, the KJV is almost 400 years old because it is very obvious to see HOW GOD PROMISED TO PRESERVE HIS WORD. I believe that the KJV is the inspired, preserved Word of God for English-speaking people available for almost 400 years. I do not believe that any foreigners must read the KJV. Romans 16:26 tells us that God preserved His Word for each nation. God preserved His Word in the apographs in France. God preserved His word in the apographs in Spain. So on.
God preserved His Word in apographs BEFORE the KJV appeared. After the KJV appeared, Praise the Lord! The Word that God preserved is that we will tremble at.
Baptist in Richmond
Active Member
Wait a minute: did you even bother to make an attempt to support the interpretation of Psalms that YOU stated?
ScottEmerson
Active Member
One of my college professors worked in Africa learning a remote language in order for the Bible to be translated in that language. Where was the preserved word of God for that culture before the Bible was translated in 1984?
Is it not so obvious to you that these arguments do not prove anything about the superiority of the KJV??? These arguments can and should be made about every faithful translation of Scripture. We all believe what you have said here; it in no way shows anything about the superiority of the KJV.
Originally posted by Askjo:
How did God preserve His Word? A easy answer is the apographs. Without the apographs, the Word that God preserved is nowhere. You see, the KJV is almost 400 years old because it is very obvious to see HOW GOD PROMISED TO PRESERVE HIS WORD. I believe that the KJV is the inspired, preserved Word of God for English-speaking people available for almost 400 years. I do not believe that any foreigners must read the KJV. Romans 16:26 tells us that God preserved His Word for each nation. God preserved His Word in the apographs in France. God preserved His word in the apographs in Spain. So on.
Please prove to us that God was limited to JUST ONE VERSION in any of those older languages.
God preserved His Word in apographs BEFORE the KJV appeared. After the KJV appeared, Praise the Lord! The Word that God preserved is that we will tremble at.
We believe also that God's preserved His word. It's quite apparent that in English, He wasn't limited to presenting His word in just one version. History bears this out. Unlike the Onlyists, WE can back up our assertions with EVIDENCE. The evidence for this assertion exists in the form of the English Bibles which preceeded the AV 1611.
I,too, am anxiously awaiting your proof that God had promised to finalize His word in English with the KJV.
How did God preserve His Word? A easy answer is the apographs. Without the apographs, the Word that God preserved is nowhere. You see, the KJV is almost 400 years old because it is very obvious to see HOW GOD PROMISED TO PRESERVE HIS WORD. I believe that the KJV is the inspired, preserved Word of God for English-speaking people available for almost 400 years. I do not believe that any foreigners must read the KJV. Romans 16:26 tells us that God preserved His Word for each nation. God preserved His Word in the apographs in France. God preserved His word in the apographs in Spain. So on.
Please prove to us that God was limited to JUST ONE VERSION in any of those older languages.
God preserved His Word in apographs BEFORE the KJV appeared. After the KJV appeared, Praise the Lord! The Word that God preserved is that we will tremble at.
We believe also that God's preserved His word. It's quite apparent that in English, He wasn't limited to presenting His word in just one version. History bears this out. Unlike the Onlyists, WE can back up our assertions with EVIDENCE. The evidence for this assertion exists in the form of the English Bibles which preceeded the AV 1611.
I,too, am anxiously awaiting your proof that God had promised to finalize His word in English with the KJV.
Archangel7
New Member
I have some questions.
(1) What do you mean by "apograph?"
(2) If God preserved His word for the English speaking people before 1611, in what document were they preserved? Or to put it another way, if I were an English-speaking person living in the year 1605, what book would I be "holding in my hands" if I had the "pure, perfect, preserved word of God" in my own language?
If Psalms 12:6-7 do not refer to the preservation of God's word (referring to the Hebrew/Greek MSS), then the KJV would not be here. </font>[/QUOTE]Psalms 12:6-7 existed in 1600 and the KJV was not "here" therefore regardless of what you think the passage means... it does not refer to the KJV whatsoever. But this doesn't even come close to supporting your claim even if I accepted your perverse interpretation of Psalms 12.
You said that God said that the KJV was the accurate manifestation of His Word. Where did He ever say that the "King James Version" would be anything?
I have just as much proof that God said that a bunch of 17th century Anglicans would create a Bible that would provide the foundation for some of the worse cults Christianity has ever known, ie. Mormonism, SDA's, extreme charasmatics, scientologists, JW's, etc.
This is not what I believe and God didn't say it... but He did not say what you said either so I call on you to repent.
How did God preserve His Word? A easy answer is the apographs. Without the apographs, the Word that God preserved is nowhere.</font>[/QUOTE] All of this has nothing to do with what you claimed.
The Geneva Bible is older than that... so it must be obvious to you that the Geneva is God's preserved Word for the English speaking world and the KJV is a perversion, right?
Your baseless belief does not prove what you claimed. I frankly don't care what you believe... I want to know where God said what you said He said.
It does not say how nor does it mention the KJV... try again.
Apograph
AP'OGRAPH n. [Gr.] An exemplar; a copy or transcript.
Praise God He still preserves His Word in the "apographs" and in faithful translations of these "apographs" such as the NASB and NKJV.
NOW, BACK TO THE QUESTION, WHERE DID GOD SAY WHAT YOU SAID HE SAID?
skanwmatos
New Member
The AV is not ambiguous in Psalm 12:6-7. In the original AV of 1611 the marginal note at verse 7 regarding the word "them" in the text says, "Heb. him, i. euery one of them" making it abundantly clear that people and not words is the antecedent of "them."