View on Antidpressants

[StraightAndNarrow]

How do you scientifically measure prevented suicides? Why do you suppose the author of the book has any other motive than to tell what happened to herself when she went on antidepressants, and how her niece was driven to light herself on fire as a result of being put on antidepressants after a car accident? Who is really making money, a small documentary film maker exposing the truth, or a multibillion dollar 'brain disease' industry? Do you know that even the prescribing information for Prozac lists psychosis as as possible side effect?

How do you know scientifically that the niece set fire to herself because of the antidepressants? I know several people who told me that they were almost to the point of committing suicide before being put on medication. That may not be scientific but it's fair evidence for me. You say that you self-medicated yourself for years. Did that help? Don't you think it would have been better to see a doctor? Didn't you say you were prescribed Paxil because you "might get depressed" after quitting smoking? What quack did that? I'll bet it was a GP.

 

[Shell]

Be more than glad to join you Ed. Not sure if its a Brother or Sister though.

Its Sister

 

[Brother Bob]

I thought so Shell but thought maybe Ed may know better than I.:flower:

 

[James_Newman]

James;
I know you are trying to help but please don't make it out to be a sin. Have you ever had your skin crawl. Have you ever been in a store and have to run out to get away from people for you can't stand it anymore. Have you ever been in such a shape you can't stand yourself, your family or anyone else. If not then please back off and let him/her work it out between them and God and doctor. If you want Scripture why not take where Jesus said those that are sick need a physician? Sounds like you had a bad experience because of your wife and I can sympathize with that but all cases are not the same. Have you watched the news and saw where some would not even let their children have blood transfusions because of beliefs. Who do you think give us the knowledge we have? I see where you are a computer doctor then please stick with it.

I never said it was a sin, but whatsoever is not of faith is sin, right? Thats another issue. Why is it that if a doctor says something, we are supposed to accept it as the gospel, but scripture should be taken with a grain of salt? I have looked into the darkness in my soul, and I hate what is in there. But the only thing that is going to overcome that evil which is in me is the Holy Spirit. The bible is about dealing with emotional problems. Sin is one big emotional problem. Calling these things an illness is not shedding light on the problem, it is covering it up. It is the result of an humanistic, materialistic philosophy that has invaded the church.

I'm a literalist when it comes to interpretting the bible. I believe in a literal Anti-christ that is going to rise to power during a literal tribulation, and I believe these things will happen soon.

Revelation 13:16-17
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

You realize that no man will be able to get his meds either? Do you really think someone who has been dependent on a government sponsored medicinal regimen to maintain his emotional state and/or sanity is going to be able to stand on that day? If we think that we will be able to stand then, should not we rather think ourselves able to stand now?

Jeremiah 12:5
5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?

Things are not going to get any easier. We have to realize at some point that the world is not our friend, and if it is then God is our enemy. God never intended us to live the way we do today, and we are reaping a lot of ill consequences as a result. Instead of running to the world for answers, we ought to be running back to God.

 

[Mishelly]

As for the debate that you get here, don't worry about it. This isn't the first time we've debated this subject and it probably won't be the last. Do not feel as though you have started an arguement. This is a Baptist forum you know. We like to argue!:smilewinkgrin:

:laugh: :smilewinkgrin:

 

[James_Newman]

How do you know scientifically that the niece set fire to herself because of the antidepressants? I know several people who told me that they were almost to the point of committing suicide before being put on medication. That may not be scientific but it's fair evidence for me. You say that you self-medicated yourself for years. Did that help? Don't you think it would have been better to see a doctor? Didn't you say you were prescribed Paxil because you "might get depressed" after quitting smoking? What quack did that? I'll bet it was a GP.

It was a quack, but Welbutrin is commonly prescibed these days for smoking under the name Zyban. It's the same thing. When I spoke of self medicating, I was referring to my elicit drug use, and no I don't think seeing a doctor would have been the answer. The answer was to turn my will over to God, and cast all my cares upon Him. And to keep doing this, even when the lights go out and there doesn't seem to be any way to go on.

 

[Brother Bob]

James what would you have said to Jesus when He said if you are sick you need a doctor? (my words, but according to Scripture)

 

[Trotter]

Thankfully I don't have to come around here for medical treatment...

So many times I've seen people shamed and even ran out of churches because they started taking antidepressants instead of "casting their cares upon God."

I really admire John MacArthur and his teachings, but he takes this line of thought in regard to depression and anxiety. He, too, has never faced that dark door in his life.

Depression can strike anyone, no matter how spiritual or how pious. It doesn't have to have a reason, like sin or past behavior. It can come and pitch camp in the shade of your tent without invitation.

The pharisaical outlook of many here saddens my heart. If something like this draws this kind of fire, how would someone in need of forgiveness be treated/?

 

[James_Newman]

James what would you have said to Jesus when He said if you are sick you need a doctor? (my words, but according to Scripture)

Luke 5:31-32
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician: but they that are sick
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus is the only physician qualified to deal with matters of the heart. I would have said the same thing that I say today. If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

 

[James_Newman]

I really admire John MacArthur and his teachings, but he takes this line of thought in regard to depression and anxiety. He, too, has never faced that dark door in his life.

Depression can strike anyone, no matter how spiritual or how pious. It doesn't have to have a reason, like sin or past behavior. It can come and pitch camp in the shade of your tent without invitation.

The pharisaical outlook of many here saddens my heart. If something like this draws this kind of fire, how would someone in need of forgiveness be treated/?

Why should you assume that just because someone is not on medication that they have never been there? 'If they had ever been in that same situation they would have made the same choice.' As for how I treat this subject, I don't say the things I say because I am trying to win friends and influence people. I'm only hoping that one person might be persuaded against making a rash decision that will likely affect the rest of their life. In the end, what you do is between you and God. If it irks you that I don't agree with every decision you make, thats not my problem. I don't know why you would think that I would have a hard time forgiving someone because I think psychology and psychiatry are science falsley so called.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Jesus is the only physician qualified to deal with matters of the heart.

This is certainly true. But everything that relates to emotions is not necessarily a matter of the heart. Someone can be secure in their faith but still be plagued with depression. This is not any different than someone who is plagued by chronic headaches. If we have medications to help these symptoms then why not use them?

Your view here is a bit jaded, I think, because of the "it's not my fault - it's a medical condition" mindset these days. If a person is fat, sad, tired, anxious - none of it is his fault. Many people are put on antidepressants when what they need is God.

But that does not mean that everyone on antidepressants is trusting in something other than God.

James I understand that you have battled a bit with "depression" symptoms. You relied on God first and have dealt well with them. Excellent for you! But believe me there are those who have had a harder time.

As long as God is first in the equation there is notion wrong with the supervised use of drugs which will help with the symptoms. And believe me they do help many people.

Certainly you are entitled to your opinion. But as Bob said you should be careful not to go so far as calling antidepressant use sin. The Bible says we are to trust God first and foremost but it does not say that antidepressants are sin. In fact the Bible does say that the bitter of heart should take a little wine. Go figure!

 

[canadyjd]

standingfirm

I believe you are taking Isaiah 26:3 out of context. The "steadfast mind" is certainly those who are remaining faithful to the commandments given by God, and the "perfect peace" most certainly refers to a peace with other nations that have been defeated by God. There are some messianic phrases as well.

Isaiah 26:1 "In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: 'We have a strong city; He sets up walls and ramparts for security. (v.2) Open the gates, that the righteous nation may enter, The one that remains faithful. (v.3) The steadfast of mind you will keep in perfect peace, Because he trusts in You.'"

If you believe it is better not to treat mental illness with medicine, then I can respect your opinion. Not so, if you take scripture out of context, in order to try to make it mean something that it does not. Not so, when you make sweeping statements concerning others' salvation or walk with God, based on inaccurate understandings of texts.

The context of Isaiah 26:3 is clear. This is not talking about mental illness.

peace to youraise:

 

[Trotter]

I'm only hoping that one person might be persuaded against making a rash decision that will likely affect the rest of their life.

Same here, James. Depression can make the unthinkable sound good, i.e. suicide.

If the use of an antidepressant can help someone to escape the thought of taking their own life, then it should be used. And I know exactly what I'm talking about.

As long as God is first in the equation there is notion wrong with the supervised use of drugs which will help with the symptoms. And believe me they do help many people.

Exactly. My marriage was perfect. My daughter was straight A and well behaved. I had a job I enjoyed, with good pay and excellent benefits. I had a house that was over half paid off, two good cars, and money in the bank. I had accepted the call to preach a couple of years earlier, and although I had a rocky start, I was working in a truck stop ministry. My relationship with the Lord was strong, our church was great, and so were my friends (both in and out of church). Yet, I still went headlong into depression.

With no unconfessed sin, what else could I do? Pray harder? Antidepressants helped me out of the hole I was in, but not before I had wrecked almost everthing around me. I was only on them for about 6-9 months, but in that time I made a complete turn-around.

Could I have done it without the antidepressants. No. I would have been dead long before the depression could have lifted.

 

[Ben W]

Pills for depression? I'd rather trust Christ.

By the very same reasoning, no Christian should then take any medication of any kind?

I have a friend who at age 6 was told she would need glasses, her parents who went to an AOG church first would not allow it because they wanted God to heal her, after several months when the healing didnt come she was given the glasses.

My friend got out of churches as soon as she was able to becuase of the constant spiritual abuse that she was put through. Yet she also has a powerfull testimony of how she came back to the church, and in her case an IFB church.

Anti-Deppressants work. They heal people just like anti biotics, heart medication or whatever other medications people take for ailments. Churches that teach that people should not go to doctors when they are ill in any way, shape or form should be well avoided!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Thankfully I don't have to come around here for medical treatment...

So many times I've seen people shamed and even ran out of churches because they started taking antidepressants instead of "casting their cares upon God."

I really admire John MacArthur and his teachings, but he takes this line of thought in regard to depression and anxiety. He, too, has never faced that dark door in his life.

Depression can strike anyone, no matter how spiritual or how pious. It doesn't have to have a reason, like sin or past behavior. It can come and pitch camp in the shade of your tent without invitation.

The pharisaical outlook of many here saddens my heart. If something like this draws this kind of fire, how would someone in need of forgiveness be treated/?

Depression can strike anyone? I am not sure of that. Since the Bible says that one will be in perfect peace whose minde is stayed on Christ, one need not get depressed. But if one gets depressed, one can turn their minds back to Christ for that peace that passes all understanding.

Depression is not a sickness. It is something that forms in the mind, the thinking.

And just what is wrong with 'casting all your cares on Him'? Does not the Bible say 'we ought to obey God rather than man'? Why do we have to turn to man for drugs for that which God has the answer?

Yes, the sick need a physician, but depression is not a sickness. It is a result of oppression. Stress in daily life can trigger depression, can cause one to feel their world is caving in. This is a spiritual problem.

There are no chemical solutions to spiritual problems.
Dave Hunt: An Urgent Call To A Serious Faith p. 203

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Could I have done it without the antidepressants. No. I would have been dead long before the depression could have lifted.

Amazing! No trust that God will keep you from an hour of temptation. Rely on pills instead of Christ.

Pills are a false hope.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

By the very same reasoning, no Christian should then take any medication of any kind?

I have a friend who at age 6 was told she would need glasses, her parents who went to an AOG church first would not allow it because they wanted God to heal her, after several months when the healing didnt come she was given the glasses.

My friend got out of churches as soon as she was able to becuase of the constant spiritual abuse that she was put through. Yet she also has a powerfull testimony of how she came back to the church, and in her case an IFB church.

Anti-Deppressants work. They heal people just like anti biotics, heart medication or whatever other medications people take for ailments. Churches that teach that people should not go to doctors when they are ill in any way, shape or form should be well avoided!

Bodily ailments and mental oppression are two different things. Mental oppression is not a sickness that man can treat with chemicals. Only Christ is the answer for that.

Yes, Christ can cure blindness. Yes, Christ can cure heart disease and other bodily ailments. But, as was pointed out earlier, the sick have need of a physician. Sometimes in the case of physical ailments we do need to see a doctor.

 

[Mishelly]

I never said it was a sin, but whatsoever is not of faith is sin, right? Thats another issue.

Is this not contradicting itself? I have faith that God heals. I have faith that He loves me. I know I did the right thing for me.

Do you really think someone who has been dependent on a government sponsored medicinal regimen to maintain his emotional state and/or sanity is going to be able to stand on that day? If we think that we will be able to stand then, should not we rather think ourselves able to stand now?

God looks at the heart of man, my heart is one with God

Depression can strike anyone? I am not sure of that. Since the Bible says that one will be in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Christ, one need not get depressed. But if one gets depressed, one can turn their minds back to Christ for that peace that passes all understanding.

My mind has always been focused on Christ, with guidance and knowledge He helped me to find the right answers, for me

And just what is wrong with 'casting all your cares on Him'? Does not the Bible say 'we ought to obey God rather than man'? Why do we have to turn to man for drugs for that which God has the answer?

I cast my cares on Him daily and I obey God, not man. Again as I sad many times; God gave us knowledge to use appropriately and with Guidance.

Most of the people on this thread have done the same, just because you do not understand or agree does not mean they are not one with Christ and that they will receive the mark of the beast. God knows what is in our hearts

 

[standingfirminChrist]

My mind has always been focused on Christ, with guidance and knowledge He helped me to find the right answers, for me

How can one have his mind focused on Christ, and not receive the peace that Christ promises to give? The peace is not coming from Christ, it is coming from that pill that one is taking.

 

[Brother Bob]

I think those opposed to medication should visit all the mental facilities and heal them all. Tell them to get up and walk out of there they are doing it to themselves. Most of them won't have any idea you are even talking to them but maybe you can get through to them some way. Maybe you could do like Benny Henn and shake the living daylights out of them, but then some men in white coats will come and take you away.