View on Antidpressants

[Trotter]

Test for what?

The prescence of depression itself.

Medicine is not an exact science. A doctor listens to what you say is bothering you, checks out your vital signs, and maybe runs a few tests. He then makes and educated guess as to what ails you, and writes a prescription for what is his educated guess of what will best treat what he thinks might be wrong with you. True, sometimes things are down-right obvious, but not always.

Depression is silent, with few physical signs (other than those brought about by its other stmptoms). Those who suffer from it usually do so in silence, not knowing what is wrong with them, and feeling ashamed of the way they feel.

By trying a person on an antidepressant, a doctor can help rule out depression caused by a chemical imbalance.

 

[James_Newman]

Surely you must realize that a saved person can be guilty of unbelief.

 

[Trotter]

Surely you must realize that a saved person can be guilty of unbelief.

How so? My faith wasn't waivering when depression hit, so that arguement doesn't hold water.

The bible says it rains on the just and the unjust. Depression is just a type of His rain.

 

[James_Newman]

The prescence of depression itself.

Medicine is not an exact science. A doctor listens to what you say is bothering you, checks out your vital signs, and maybe runs a few tests. He then makes and educated guess as to what ails you, and writes a prescription for what is his educated guess of what will best treat what he thinks might be wrong with you. True, sometimes things are down-right obvious, but not always.

Depression is silent, with few physical signs (other than those brought about by its other stmptoms). Those who suffer from it usually do so in silence, not knowing what is wrong with them, and feeling ashamed of the way they feel.

By trying a person on an antidepressant, a doctor can help rule out depression caused by a chemical imbalance.

Well I sure know what its like to be ashamed of the way I feel. But I don't think they have a pill for that. I used to work for a doctor, and I know for sure medicine is not an exact science. But using prescriptions to test for the presence of an unproven disease sounds more like quackery or witchcraft.

 

[James_Newman]

How so? My faith wasn't waivering when depression hit, so that arguement doesn't hold water.

The bible says it rains on the just and the unjust. Depression is just a type of His rain.

The type that requires a chemical umbrella, huh.

Matthew 8:24-26
24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
25 And his disciples came to him and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

 

[Trotter]

But using prescriptions to test for the presence of an unproven disease sounds more like quackery or witchcraft.

As long as the medications do no harm, it is called good practice. It's the same as a doctor prescribing an antibiotic, and it doesn't get the job done. So he prescribes a different one.

Matthew 8:24-26

Nice verses, but not what the discussion is over.

Not everything that happens in our lives is chastisement or punishment. We encounter various trials throughout our lives. Each one we face had to go through God first, because nothing can touch us without His permission.

The unrighteous are blessed with prosperity, as are the righteous. the unrighteous suffer want, as do the righteous. The unrighteous suffer depression, as does the righteous. God never promised us otherwise.

Paul had more faith than anyone today, yet he suffered physically and mentally ("despaired for our lives" ring a bell?). Was Paul guilty of unbelief during these times?

 

[James_Newman]

Suffering is not a sign of unbelief, suffering is biblical. Compromising in order to get out of suffering is not. Was not Abraham in unbelief when he went in to Hagar? We can always find a quick easy way, but that way is not going to be blessed.

And as far as I am aware, an antibiotic never drove anyone insane. Never mind that using antibiotics to test for infections would be regarded unfavorably in medical circles.

 

[Trotter]

And as far as I am aware, an antibiotic never drove anyone insane.

No, but they have killed many.

As for antidepressants driving someone insane, you've been watching too much television.

Every substance we introduce into out bodies has the possibilty of having adverse reactions with it. That includes medicines, as well as food. Peanuts are fine for me, but would kill others. there will always be a very few who have adverse reactions to each and every medication, but that doesn't stop it from being used. The government requires all medications to have the listed side effects and known adverse reactions given out with the medication for this reason.

Waving your hand and saying, "If you had faith..." is easy. Surviving depression isn't easy.

 

[James_Newman]

I don't watch television, and I don't take antidepressants. Hmm, perhaps I should write a book on overcoming depression by turning off the news. I said before that I saw first hand what the withdrawal from Zoloft did to my wife. FYI, she is still on the stuff, in case I gave you the impression that it was just unpleasant. She doesn't really want to keep taking it, but she is so scared to go through what she went through the last time that she is unwilling to try. You may think going through life on a chemical crutch is perfectly fine and well pleasing to the Lord. I think different. I think Paul made it clear that he was not willing to be brought under the power of anything. I will be like Paul in this matter. All the comparisons of Psych dope to peanuts and antibiotics are meaningless. Peanuts are food. Antibiotics kill bacteria, which according to general consensus do indeed cause illnesses. You are treating the symptoms of a hypothetical disease that has no visible cause with brain altering chemicals. It's well and good to say you have a chemical imbalance, but unless you have a test to prove that... well I'll be, I guess you do have faith.

 

[Trotter]

I said before that I saw first hand what the withdrawal from Zoloft did to my wife.

And, as I said before, you DO NOT just stop taking these things. I have been down that road, and it is a tailspin into the abyss much worse that where you were before. It is plunging from the heights you have attained back into the pit you were in, with nothing to break your fall. Most who have done this end up doing something rash...

You may think going through life on a chemical crutch is perfectly fine and well pleasing to the Lord.

So every heart patient should stop taking their meds? Every person with a transplanted organ ought to stop theirs? How about AIDS patients... should they stop taking their "crutches" as well?

You are treating the symptoms of a hypothetical disease that has no visible cause with brain altering chemicals.

"hypothetical disease" - I can vouch for it... just as many women can vouch for monthly cramps that doctors didn't believe existed for centuries.

"no visible cause with brain altering chemicals." - If we could see it, then doctors wouldn't have to guess, and it would never be a problem for anyone else again.

Really, James. You shouldn't argue about something you have never experienced. I'm sure your wife believes that depression is a real thing.

You are spouting the same stuff many IFB preachers spout, as well as many on TBN. Faith is God's marvelous gift, but it's not a rabbits foot. It doesn't prevent us from having to face what God allows us to be tried with.

Christ promised us that we would overcome the world through Him. but He never said that we would do so unscathed.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Yes, James...

Let's you and I throw our faith in the Lord out the window and turn into drug addicts... put our faith in the happy pill.

 

[James_Newman]

The stuff I am spouting is called the truth. There is a way that seemeth right unto a man. Then there is God's way. I'm sorry that you found yourself in a situation where you felt the only way to continue life was to get yourself placed on medication. I'm not saying that these problems do not exist. I'm just saying that we are only reaping what we sow, and the quick fix solution is the wrong solution.

We need to get back to biblical principles in our lives. Women are getting depressed because they are trying to juggle full time careers and a family life? I'm hardly surprised. But we can't have single incomes, its better just to take some pills. God only knows what the junk we put into our bodies on a daily basis (under the guise of 'food') is really doing to us. Could depression be the result of diet? No doctor would deny it. But how much easier is it to just take a pill than to change eating habits that have been ingrained in us from years of watching commercials telling us what junk food to eat. Christians who will not heed even common sense will probably not fare much better with the bible. But we can't say we might have been wrong, its better just to take a pill. Take the pills, brother, its better. But we reap what we sow. Sooner or later, every seed sprouts. Should we really be surprised when we reap?

 

[Phillip]

What is the verse where Jesus straightens out his disciples when they ask if a blind man sinned and caused his ailment?

Trotter, my wife has been on anti-depressants. Many of those that James mentioned. She had very few problems getting off of them. In fact, I took one for a year and the doctor dropped me down over two months and I had no side effects whatsoever.

Just ask our doctor; he already quoted that anti-depressants are not addictive like narcotics of benzediaprines.

I don't know why Jame's wife is having so much trouble. It sounds to me like she may actually be needing those medications whether or not she wants to take them.

standingfirmonChrist, do you take any medications for anything? Why would those be any different than an anti-depressant--after all the Bible says we should have total faith in God.

I again say that God gave us WONDERFUL brains in order to develop the medications that are now available to people.

I am shocked that Christians would judge brothers and sisters just because they accept a prescription from a doctor.

Again, I ask, do I stop taking my beta-blocker that holds my blood pressure within safe limits? Obviously, much high-blood pressure is brought on by emotional stress. I know mine was, I know when I got it and I know how. So does my doctor and he treated me in such a way.

 

[Phillip]

double-post--computer dropped off-line, sorry

 

[standingfirminChrist]

John 9... The story of the blind man. Who did sin that this man was born blind?

Again, blindness is a physical ailment. Not mental instability.

 

[DHK]

Yes, James...

Let's you and I throw our faith in the Lord out the window and turn into drug addicts... put our faith in the happy pill.

Would you tell an epileptic that?
Would you tell a diabetic that?
Would you tell a revovering heart patient that?
Would you tell people to throw away their glasses?
Would you tell TB patients to discontinue their medication?
Should we throw all the benefits of allopathay out of the window?
Where do you draw the line? And why?
DHK

 

[standingfirminChrist]

All those are Physical ailments. Docs know what the pills do for those ailments. They do not fully know what the pills do for brain functions. What kind of damage it does.

Read the Book, 'An Urgent Call To A Serious Faith' by Dave Hunt; chapter 22. He explains a great deal about the difference between physical and spiritual.

People are using a physical pill with a physical chemical to alter a non-physical problem.

Now, here is sfiC's assessment on all the meds that are prescribed for the physical ailments...

Considering the side effects that most pills have, I would almost be tempted to say throw away all those pills myself. Notice I did not say throw them away, but I would almost be tempted to say that.

They say, 'This pill will give you heartburn relief, but may cause liver or kidney disease or failure.' 'This pill cures headaches but may cause severe cramping' 'Blood pressure meds may cause severe cramping in knees' The list goes on.

Is it really worth it?

 

[James_Newman]

I would love to continue to argue, but I think the words of smarter men than I would probably have more credibility. So I will just post articles that I think show my position reasonably well. Those who are interested should read them. Those who are secure in their 'faith' can feel free to ignore them.

Psychologist Michael Browne on the failures of antidepressants

A Pill is Not Enough (link)

Dr. Michael Browne is a psychologist who has spent 25 years in private practice in Minneapolis and an adjunct University of Minnesota faculty member who supervises psychiatric residents learning to conduct therapy. About five years ago, he was asked to give a talk about mental health issues to residents training to be family practice doctors. In preparation, he started reading research on antidepressants. "I was just completely astounded by what I found," he explains. "The claims for the effectiveness of antidepressants were greatly exaggerated. I looked closely at the evidence, and it's not there."

As it turns out, and I say this based on looking very carefully at the research: These drugs have little or no effectiveness. They simply don't help that much. You can always point to individual patients who will say that any treatment is wonderful, it's cured them. That's why people go around wearing copper bracelets. There are people who say, "I had terrible arthritis and this copper bracelet cured my arthritis."

 

[Charles Meadows]

SFIC and James,

You guys are still making generalizations. We would all agree that trusting pills over God is sin and will lead one in the wrong direction. Buit you fail to recognize that no one here is advocating that.

We can overcome the world through Christ - but the peace of God does not mean we are always happy and pain free. One can rest in God's peace and still be sad. There is nothing wrong with taking antidepressants for symptoms of sadness if one's spiritual life is in order otherwise.

You guys are both biblical literalists - so I ask you again where does it say that antidepressants are wrong?

Consider this:

"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts." (Prov 31:6 KJV).

In fact the Bible seems to indicate that it is OK to for the believer to use "medicinal substances" to help with sadness.

 

[mcdirector]

Well, the brain is a real, physical part of the body.

I could be wrong here, but I sure did think that epilepsy meds effected the brain. I know my migraine meds effect more of me than my migraines but allow me to function. Are the side effects worth it? You betcha!

Everyone has to weigh the pros and cons of any given medication for themselves.