Views on NT tithing?

2 Cor 9:7 (NIV) Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not relunctantly or under compusion, for God loves a cheerful giver

To preach tithing appears not only unscriptual, but against God's will.

As others have said, donating just 10% can be a very low amount for someone who is well off financially.

 

What a bluff. People who don't tithe are not going to start just because he said this. Those who do likely boast about how they are "blessed" already. And even if anybody took this up and began to tithe (as they understand it), would they really go to the church to get their money back? What would they have to show to get their refund? Imagine the pastor or treasurer looking over their books; they would just have to find something... "Oh, did you really need this new recliner you bought last month"..."Couldn't you have made it just another season with your old fence".... Shurr they would give his money back. Besides all this, anybody who gives significant money to a church would not want to be branded a thief, as they would call him for even trying this, nor would he want to be ostracized in the church he supported.

 

It's still as I say... people are too vainly concerned about their reputations to actually ask for the money back. Why doesn't the church just automatically give the money back, instead of giving it back [or saying they will] only if the person requests it? If this idea really "worked" that's how they would do it.

 

It would "accomplish" showing that this idea is valid or not.

 

This is perhaps one of the most cynical posts I have seen since I joined this board.

 

I appreciate the intention, but I would have to disagree that the "Malachi Experiment" is not Scripturally valid. Malachi 3:8-10 is very often taken out of its proper context.

The tithe laws:

As I showed earlier, the annual tithe was a celebration in which those who tithed (of the annual increase of their crops and livestock) came together in Jerusalem, ate their own tithes, and shared with the Levites, fatherless, widows, and foreigners. Every third year was the year of the heap tithe in which those who tithed (of the annual increase of their crops and livestock) laid it outside their gates for the Levites, fatherless, widows, and foreigners to glean.

The tithe was strictly of food and not money. If one did not wish to tithe, he could pay its value instead in money + 20%. The tithe of the crops could be redeemed. The tithe of the livestock could not be redeemed, because the livestock was needed by the priests for sacrifice (Lev 27:30-32; Deu 12, 14).


Return to the Law under Hezekiah:

Now, after the wicked king Ahaz died, his son, king Hezekiah decided to bring Israel back to obedience to the Law. In a four month period, the people laid up their heap tithes outside their gates. This left more than enough for the Levites and poor, and there was still a lot laid outside. Now, Hezekiah decided to do something that was not commanded in the Law to handle this surplus, and God approved. He commanded to build chambers in the temple to store this surplus food so that it would be available as needed and would not go to waste. This is where "storehouse tithing" began (2 Chr 31).


Return to the Law after the Captivity:

After the Babylonian captivity under Nehemiah, the people resumed the storehouse tithing practice as it related to the Law (Neh 10:37-39). Notice how the priests were the ones to actually bring the tithes of the people into the storehouse. This is the context of the book of Malachi.


The Book of Malachi:

The entire book of Malachi is written specifically to Israel (Mal 1:1), namely to the priests (Mal 2:1). There is good reason for that as from the previous section. The priests, being the religious leaders at the time, were leading the people astray from the Law (Mal 2:7-8).
In chapter 1, the priests were robbing God in offerings (Mal 3:8) by offering polluted bread and blemished beasts upon the altars, and even having empty burning altars (Mal 1:7-12).
In chapter 2, God addresses the priests for their hypocrisy and leading the people astray from the Law. The curse of Malchi 3:9 is defined in this chapter (2:1-3,9).
In chapter 3, God prophesies of the coming Messiah. Still addressing the priests, He tells them that they were robbing God in tithes (2 Chr 31; Neh 10:37-39) and offerings (Mal 1:7-12). They were robbing God in tithes by not bringing the people's tithes into the storehouse. They were robbing God in offerings by offering polluted bread and blemished beasts upon the altars. The curse is found in chapter 2.

So, it helps to get a proper context for the often isolated Malachi 3:8-10 passage. Here is Malachi 3:10 with context cross references added:

Those who followed the "Malachi Experiment" were blessed because
1. They gave cheerfully; God loveth a cheerful giver (2 Cor 9:7)
2. Cheerful giving follows the NT principle of sowing and reaping (2 Cor 9:6)
3. Committed giving teaches budgeting. Budgeting teaches how much you really have, how much you really need, and how much you are capable of giving

not because Malachi 3:8-10 has any bearing upon New Testament giving or the church in its proper context.

 

And yet it still seems... strangely... realistic.

 

Since the entire OT to from and about Israel lets just set it aside. It isnt relevent to us anymore eh?

Those things that were just shadows are no longer applicable because they were fulfilled by the cross. However it is fallacy to dismiss everything because of the age of grace.

And by the way grace does not mean do whatever I feel like doing. In this NT age there are absolutes the same as the OT.

 

This is just sinful, both on the part of hte preacher and the people. In this "Malachi Experiment," money became the idol. They didn't give to God because he deserved it, but so that their financial situation would get better. Besides, Malachi is for Israel, not the church.

This pastor should repent publicly for this act. The people who participated should repent publicly.

We give to God because he commands it and deserves it, not because we want our financial situation to improve.

 

Terse copout. I do not argue this. The topic is about tithing and I believe that an honest study of the Scripture (OT and NT) very clearly and specifically defines what a Biblical tithe was. It is dishonest to Scripture to pull tithing out of its actual context, redefine it to something it never was (10% of one's net/gross/gross+benefits/etc. paycheck to church coffers), and then take Malachi 3:8-10 out of its proper context and try to apply it to individual church "laity." This is blatant unabridged dishonesty to Scripture (or ignorance, but that can be changed). In order to prove tithing for the church, you must prove that I am incorrect.

What Scriptural commands am I dismissing, and how do I obey them according to Scripture in proper context?

Agree. Amen!

 

I don't think I can agree with this assessment. The preacher likely was not teaching this out of spite. I believe he was sincere and had good intentions. He likely is not aware that this is Scripturally incorrect.

If the pastor comes to grips with what the Scripture actually teaches, he should simply apologize and teach the truth. I don't think the people need to repent, because I think their hearts were in the right place.

Agree. Amen!

 

Excellent Balanced Teaching....!

Ares...that was,in my opinion, some of the most excellent,balanced teaching on the subject of tithing I have ever seen. It was a good,solid post that did NOT fall off into sarcasm or accusation which many almost automatically do when the subject of MONEY comes up.:thumbs: I have noticed in the course of time that most of the threads that deal with this subject usually wind up degenerating into some form of warfare. The truth is though,inspite of a good "rightly divided" and balanced approach to what the scriptures say about TRUE Biblical tithing most of the respondents to a thread like this will probably let the truth go right over their heads.(Maybe because they could never believe that their "pastor" could or would EVER lead them astray) I have rarely, if ever, seen anyone from the "tithing camp" willing to try to refute point for point the kind of teaching you have offered. When I approached my own pastor about this over a year ago and asked his opinion on the matter offering him a detailed listing of the scriptures such as you have discussed his only response was that " it was bad or false teaching that was a product of "poor exegesis" of the scriptures. In further conversations he never was willing to elaborate on that comment.I suspect it is because he CAN'T. I'm afraid most here will prove to be the same way. I won't seperate over such a thing but I have learned that my giving habits (and I LOVE GIVING) are between the Lord and myself (and my precious wife). I will only make comment on this within my fellowship of believers if the subject is initiated by someone else AND the Lord moves on me to do so. I am grateful for the "LIBERTY wherewith Christ hath made me free".....and this is just another small part of that liberty. I do,however, get somewhat angry and indignant when I hear one of these charlatan so-called "preachers" get up and bash the sheep and demand money while falsely accusing "his flock"(they aren't) of being God-robbers. Preach on Brother AresMan....you may get through to someone by the grace of God.:type:

In Christ, Greg Perry Sr.:saint:

 

What other systems of giving are effective?... I have only been in churches that support tithing...

Maybe we can discuss alternative means to supporting the church. I have heard of churches that do pledges. What are some other ways to finance a church's ministries?

 

Here is one of my threads on another forum called Principles of New Testament Giving. Teach principles of generous and abundant giving. Present any need clearly and at length and address the issue of the heart. I don't see a tithe in the New Testament church, but I see people selling their possessions and laying almost everything they had before the apostles' feet. Just as much as it should be of faith for the giver, it should be of faith for the receiver.

 

Thank you. :applause: :wavey:

 

Note the KEYWORD

:saint: Tim...note the keyword in what AresMan just said....F A I T H ....this is the answer to why,how,what we are to give. People of faith(which is what we are supposed to be) will understand that the "church" as an assembly will have needs such as meeting the needs of the folk who minister to us(ie. the pastor and his family and those who do the work of the ministry). You can't "force" faithfulness on people by instituting a "tithe" where the scriptures don't mandate one. We should BY FAITH take care of those in our fellowship that have needs or are sick,poor,widowed or who work or minister for our good. The scriptures clearly call for that (even in the OT). In the age of grace we are to give by faith.
I know of one church and ministry in Deland,Fla. that practices this by having a box at the door that the congregation places their offerings in. There are no plates passed. The pastor is a well-known pastor/teacher with a far-reaching ministry(James Knox). They do all by faith and offer their tapes and CD's at NO CHARGE as well as a ministry of the Bible Baptist Church via their radio ministry.They operate by faith in the Biblical model. I just wish there were more like them.( By the way, I've never,not once, heard this preacher ASK or APPEAL for money...NOT ONCE!) My own contention is that if we operate TRULY by faith we shouldn't have to. Just my opinion. (this would drive a pastor and/or church treasurer trying to put a "budget" on paper CRAZY !!!!):tongue3:

Bless You,
Greg Perry Sr.:godisgood:

 

I agree that there is not a requirement for N. T. Chtistians to tithe. This false teaching has been taught for many years for obvious reasons.

However, we have always given more than 10% of our income. I think it is a good guide (not a requirement) to follow for us.

Two points that I have not seen in this thread: (1) The SBC BF&M has a paragraph on stewardship and tithing is not mentioned. (2) Many church constitution and bylaws have a requirement for members to tithe.

Question: If your church constitution and bylaws have a requirement that members are expected to tithe and you are a member, should you consider tithing a requirement even though the scriptures don't require it?