Views on NT tithing?

Ares

I am for once impressed.

This is the FIRST TIME THAT I REMEMBER EVER HAVING heard, seen, or read someone actually describe the Old Testament tithe as GOD commanded it to be done.

The only thing that I would point out was the REASON for the tithe was SO THAT WE WOULD HONOR THE LORD GOD.

Thank you for reading His Word.

Wayne

 

I am with ya here. I have never been in a church that didn't teach the church tithing myth. I actually didn't really get much into the tithing laws in this post except enough to define the context for Malachi: namely the storehouse and the priests.

I did mention this in post #4:

 

I was in a church for ten years that gave 50 percent of its receipts to missions and never lacked for money. It had never borrowed one penny for its buildings. The people could say that they had never paid one penny in interest as a church.

One of the men who was the first persn to become a Christian shortly after the church began in 1938 gave 90% of his earnings. That is way more than a tithe. It is giving. Most of the time it is the poorer people in churches who give and the rich who give a tip.

 

I am glad you brought this up. Here is John MacArthur's view on tithing. I don't necessarily agree with all of his assessments, but I agree with his basic premise: that there is no valid "tithe" command for the church.

Bible Questions and Answers - Tithing question
John MacArthur - Giving and the Tithe
Should a person be excommunicated from the church for not paying his tithes?
Does God require me to give a tithe of all I earn?

 

My Grand papy said something like, "If you do not understand something - look for the money."

 

(1Co 16:2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Tithing is scriptural, but we are to do it to be obedient, not to get something in return.
I believe folks use the 10% idea because that is the only example we have to go by, although, I don't agree with it.
I personally feel that a lot of the money churches are spending now days is spent unwisely. No need for these huge, high dollar church buildings and enormous sound systems, etc...
More funding could easily be going to help spread the Gospel.
IMHO

 

What "law" did Abraham follow by giving a tithe to Melchizedek?

 

From Romans 12:

6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to hisfaith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

This reads like the ability to give is actually a gift from God, implying that all aren't going to have it. This would seem to be another nail in the coffin for a universal tithe for all christians.

Les

 

So betting with God's money is okay after four weeks of messages commanding somethign the Bible doesn't command?

Wasn't hte pastor's point about being better off after tithing for six months or getting the money back?

When someone preaches falselly with good intentions, it is still false preaching. If he is not aware that this is Scripturally incorrect, then he is derelict in his duty of pastoring. He is to take heed to the word, to study it, and to lead people to obedience. And he will be judged by a stricter standard.

Where does Scripture command apology? It commands repentance.

It depends on why they were doing it. "Hearts in the right place" is not the biblical standard for obedience.

This is a serious matter when someone mishandles the word this badly, and then encourages people to bet with God about whether or not they will be better off. Good intentions are beside the point when it comes to correctness.

 

1 Cor 16:2 has not one iota to do with tithing. Here is the full context:

This was a "collection for the saints [in Jerusalem]" by [at least] the churches of Galatia and Corinth. Since Paul was a traveling missionary, he would also deliver messages and goods from church to church. There was a great need for the saints [not ministers, but everyone] in Jerusalem; therefore, to meet this need, Paul gave instructions to the churches on how to budget and save so that when he came, they would be prepared to give abundantly for the need.

The "first day of the week" reference is misunderstood to be a reference to a church service. As there is no clear indication that the early church met on Sundays [no, I am not a SDA], this is likely a reference to wages. Upon the first day of the week, when most people were likely to have just received their wages (or before they were likely to have spent much), Paul instructed that each person "lay by him in store." In other words, this was not dropping something in a plate each week; this was adding to a personal "savings account" each week so that when Paul arrived, there would be enough prepared in advance to give to him, so that he could deliver the gifts to Jerusalem to meet the needs of the saints there.

I wholeheartedly 100% agree with every word here.

 

As I said before...

Those who followed the "Malachi Experiment" were blessed because
1. They gave cheerfully; God loveth a cheerful giver (2 Cor 9:7)
2. Cheerful giving follows the NT principle of sowing and reaping (2 Cor 9:6)
3. Committed giving teaches budgeting. Budgeting teaches how much you really have, how much you really need, and how much you are capable of giving

not because Malachi 3:8-10 has any bearing upon New Testament giving or the church in its proper context.

 

Please explain Genesis 14:20
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High.

19He blessed him and said,
"Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand."
He gave him a tenth of all.

And New Testament commentary on that act. Hebrews 7:1-2

For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace.

This is pre-law. So the idea of tithe was around well before the giving of the Law. Mostly every Ancient Near Eastern religion had a tithing system and usually it was 10%. Neo-Babylonian texts from the sixth century b.c. discuss the collection of tithes as a means of supporting a sanctuary. Demosthenes mentions tithe in his writings. Arabians required every merchant to offer a tenth of his frank incense to the priest for their God. Xenophan, after his Retreat of the Ten Thousand from Asia Minor, together with his captains, consecrated the tithe of his gains to Apollo and to Diana, and built a temple supported by tithes. The duty of tithing is frequently mentioned in the Egyptian documents. China accepted the law of the tithe very early. The testimony of the antiquity of tithing was like what Monacutius said "in the annals of all times none are found who did not pay tithes ."

In the New Testament times tithing would be understand by every pagan. There existed the "Roman tithe." Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts.

In my opinion the principle of giving unto God the firstfruits of our increase is written in our hearts. It is not a part of the ceremonial law. It is a lasting, moral obligation for all ages. The fact that so many nations have decided upon a tenth (tithe) as the portion to set aside for God, argues for a patriarchal revelation given to ancient man.

So there are certain things that have no need to be repeated in the New Testament. If anything, Paul in his letters needed to write that they should not tithe because it was automatic from their past pagan life.

He never mentions it, only that they should be generious when it came to a spiecal collection being gathered by him for the Jerusalem church in 2 Cor. 8-9. If yo compare this with 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 I see it as a giving above the tithe.

I think it odd that Christians feel a need to justify not giving at least 10% in light of what all people did in the ANE and even what many other religions practice today. We worship the one true God, but we scuff (or look of loopholes) at the tithe in which the rest of the world freely give to their false gods.

Warmly
Mildbanter

 

Mildbanter writes:
"I think it odd that Christians feel a need to justify not giving at least 10% in light of what all people did in the ANE and even what many other religions practice today. We worship the one true God, but we scuff (or look of loopholes) at the tithe in which the rest of the world freely give to their false gods."

Who justifies not giving at least 10%? I didn't see any posts here that made that assertion.

 

That is my point. A New Testament tithe is meant, again in my opinion, to be used first of all for furthering the spread of the Gospel. Secondly, as an act of benevolence, as it was with the church of Jerusalem.
I suppose I use the word tithe for lack of a better word. But, giving financially is scriptural.

 

There is no indication in the Bible that a tithe was ever used to spread the Gospel. It was to support the government of the nation of Israel.

There is no indication here that this collection was a tithe.

Therein lies the confusion. The tithe has nothing to do with the financing of the church. You could try the words "gifts," "cheerful giving," "liberality," etc. Those are the terms used by the New Testament in relation to the ministry.

Amen! I agree 100% wholeheartedly with this statement. No one here is suggesting otherwise.