VIRGIN MARY

DKH,

You keep missing the point. You, like others are picking and choosing which portion of my post to notice.

Several are asking me questions about my faith, and I am explaining it.
It begins with the grace of God which touches a sinner's heart, and calls him to repentance. This grace cannot be merited; it proceeds solely from the love and mercy of God. Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God, he may turn to God or remain in sin. Grace does not constrain man's free will.

Thus assisted the sinner is disposed for salvation from sin; he believes in the revelation and promises of God, he fears God's justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him for Christ's sake, begins to love God as the source of all justice, hates and detests his sins. Which in turn leads to turning to from sin and accepting that Christ died for our sins.

 

Living4Him,
You might consider this as well.
Catholics do not really believe that Christ paid the penalty for their sins; that he died on the cross for their sins.
Why?
If they really beieved that He did, then why would they believe in the heretical concept of purgatory where they themselves have to be purged from the very sins that Christ paid for?
DHK

 

It is not symbolic in the way that you see it. You see it as an outward sign or the first act of obedience to Christ.

Baptism does impart God's grace to us. Another effect of baptism is the infusion of sanctifying grace and supernatural gifts and virtues.

 

Fine. Then keep baptism out of the picture. It does not save, has nothing to do with salvation. If one has to believe to be saved there is no need to ever baptize an infant who can neither believe nor repent. Baptism has nothing to do with being born again or salvation. It only gets you wet. You yourself used such exprssions as:

"Man may receive or reject this inspiration of God,"
"he fears God's justice, hopes in his mercy, trusts that God will be merciful to him"

Can an infant receive or reject, fear, hope or trust? Obviously not! Yet you equate being born again to being baptized, and then baptize infants and say they are born again into God's family. What heresy! And contradictions.
DHK

 

I agree that to be born again that we have to accept by faith the Jesus' death and resurrection is ALL that is needed.

Baptism is important in the fact that it is an act of obedience but a person that accepts by faith Christ Jesus and does not receive baptism will still go to heaven. What does the RCC say to that? In reading some of the cathecism, my understanding it that that act in and of itself is not going to get you into heaven.

I would appreciate any insight you could give me on my posts about mortal vs. venial sin, etc.

I appreciate your patience and tenacity even though I do not agree with you. I have lots of friends that have left the RCC because of their teachings ADDING to God's Word. Isn't it hard for you since you grew up not in the RCC?

 

DKH,

I can see that you will believe whatever you choose to believe and nothing I say will make any difference.

Which that is your choice.

However, I will tell you this, even in my IFB upbringing the concept of purgatory was believed, although they did not refer to this as purgatory.

The Bible states that nothing unclean can enter the Kingdom of heaven. We were taught that a person faces personal judgment the moment that they die. And are cleansed or are purified as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,

Do you believe that when you die you are automatically holy and don't have to face judgment?

 

Also, what does the RCC teach about being a member of the church? Take me, a Baptist: I am born again and baptised (although that has NOTHING to do with my salvation, it is an act of obedience) and NOT a member of the RCC. From what I gather in my reading of the cathecism, I am hell bound at warp speed when I die.

 

No, that's not quite correct.

Outside of the Catholic Church, there is no Salvation", is, 'if you realize the Catholic Church is the True Church, and if you refuse to join it, then you have rejected the truth of the Church. By rejecting the Church, you reject Jesus Christ who founded it'. Therefore you are... 'Outside of the Catholic Church and there is no salvation'. See Heb 6:4-8

All children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be the more severely judged.

The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. For there are many who hold sacred scripture in honor as a rule of faith and of life, who have a sincere religious zeal, who lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and the Saviour, who are sealed by baptism which unites them to Christ, and who indeed recognize and receive other sacraments in their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them possess the episcopate, celebrate the holy Eucharist There is furthermore a sharing in prayer and spiritual benefits; these Christians are indeed in some real way joined to us in the Holy Spirit for, by his gifts and graces, his sanctifying power is also active in them and he has strengthened some of them even to the shedding of their blood. And so the Spirit stirs up desires and actions in all of Christ's disciples in order that all may be peaceably united, as Christ ordained, in one flock under one shepherd.

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways. There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Rom. 9:4-5): in view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Rom. 11:29-29). But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Savior wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Tim. 2:4). Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience--those too may achieve eternal salvation. Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is considered by the Church to be a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life. But very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, have exchanged the truth of God for a lie and served the world rather than the Creator (cf. Rom. 1:21 and 25). Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair. Hence to procure the glory of God and the salvation of all these, the Church, mindful of the Lord's command,

 

Mortal sin is actual sin that destroys sanctifying grace and causes the supernatural death of the soul. Objectively speaking, a sinner who passes into eternity in a state of mortal sin sends himself to hell.

Mortal sin breaks our relationship with God. It destroys charity in the heart of man by grave violation of God’s law. Mortal sin is generally associated with a seriously inordinate adherence to creatures that gravely injures our rational nature.

For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met. CCC 1857 “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

CCC 1858 “Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: ’Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.’ The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.”

CCC 1859 “Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.”

CCC 1860 “Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.”

The words mortal or deadly address the effect in the sinner, loss of God’s friendship. The words grave or serious address the importance of the matter in which the sinner offends God. But these are simply nuances in describing the same kind of sin: grave matter committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.

Venial Sin
Offense against God which does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace.

We can never accept even venial sin. St. Teresa of Avila said, “For the love of God, take care never to grow careless about venial sin, however small … There is nothing small if it goes against so great a sovereign.”

Deliberate venial sin weakens the spiritual powers, reduces our resistance to evil, and causes us to wander in our journey to the Cross. It is an illness of the soul, but not its supernatural death.

There are two situations in which we commit venial sin:

» We violate divine law with full or partial knowledge and consent.

» We disobey an objectively grave precept but due to invincible ignorance we think the obligation is not serious.

 

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with a Baptist church. All Baptist churches are not the same. And no Baptist church believes in anything that is remotely similar to a purgatory.

I can tell you right now that in my standing before God, I am perfectly holy and righteous, without sin. And I will continue to be that way, so that when I stand before God I will still be perfectly holy and righteous and without sin.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--When I came to Christ as a sinner, and trusted Him as my Saviour, he gave me His gift of eternal life, and granted me forgiveness of sins--past, present and future. As the Bible tells me, "I am justified by faith." In essence the word justified means "just as if I never sinned." God looks down upon me and he doesn't see the sinful DHK, but rather he sees the DHK clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. My standing before Christ is perfectly righteous and holy. He has cast all my sins behind his back to remember them no more.

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Micah 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,

Yes, I stand in perfect holiness, undefiled, righteous, justified, and wholly sanctified before Jesus Christ. That is not to say that I am not a sinner. I am. But I am a sinner saved by grace.
DHK

 

That is what we call damnable heresy. Essentially you have just condemned all who post on this board to Hell, because we are outside of the Catholic Church. You cannot prove one iota of what you say through Scripture. Therefore it is you that believes in heresy.
DHK

 

DKH,
You are still reading what you want to read into what I wrote. Did you not bother to read the entire thing?
If you realize(or believe) that the Catholic Church is truth and you reject this truth.

From everything that you have stated, I know that you do not believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, therefore this statement doesn't pertain to you.

 

So do you believe that since you have been saved, you are not required to ask God's forgiveness for sins that you may commit since you have been born again?

 

No, that is just your interpretation of a partial quote isn't it? I can quote you the Catechism and quotes from the documents of Vatican II, of which I have both, and show you that the Catholic Church adamantly believes that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. They believe that now. They have always believed that. The Great Inquistion was based on that very belief. If they could not get others to recant their faith, and become a Catholic they would torture them to death, burn them at the stake, and commit hundreds of other horrendous unmentionable acts. Try reading Foxes' Book of Martyrs.
DHK

 

So do you believe that since you have been saved, you are not required to ask God's forgiveness for sins that you may commit since you have been born again? </font>[/QUOTE]I will never, never have to ask God's forgiveness of sins in respect to my salvation. I am saved for all eternity. He has given me eternal life. The gift of God is eternal life. If that gift could be lost or taken away at any time then it wouldn't be eternal. It would only be temporary and God would be found to be a liar.

As far as my day to day relationship with God is concerned that is a different matter. It has nothing to do with my salvation. I go to God in prayer often, every day. I confess my sin, and "he is faithful and just to forgive me my sins." That has nothing to do with my salvation, only my fellowship and walk with God. A father does not disown his son because he disobeys him. Neither does my Heavenly Father disown me because I disobey Him. He forgives me. I was born again--born into his family. It is too bad that you don't understand this concept. Jesus said to the most religious people in the world:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Yes, your spiritual father is the devil. You need to be born again. You need to born into God's family. You need to trust Christ as your Saviour based on the sacrificial blood that was once shed to pay the penalty of your sin. You need to accept that sacrifice by faith and by faith alone.
DHK

 

No, actually that whole thing I posted was from Catholic Answer.

My parish priest and our bishop also state that these views are from the pope as well.

My parish priest also claims that the pope states it is a grave sin to say that a person is not saved who does not attend the Catholic Church. It is also a sin to presume another Christian is not saved based on doctrinal differences.

 

No almost forgot, The Catechism Handbook by Father Oscar Lukefahr, C.M. also explains the "No Salvation outside the Church" thing exactly the way that I have stated it.

 

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation."55 Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

15 The second part of the Catechism explains how God's salvation, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two).

780 The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men.

773 In the Church this communion of men with God, in the "love [that] never ends," is the purpose which governs everything in her that is a sacramental means, tied to this passing world.192 "[The Church's] structure is totally ordered to the holiness of Christ's members. And holiness is measured according to the 'great mystery' in which the Bride responds with the gift of love to the gift of the Bridegroom."193 Mary goes before us all in the holiness that is the Church's mystery as "the bride without spot or wrinkle."194 This is why the "Marian" dimension of the Church precedes the "Petrine."195

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

CATHOLIC CATECHISM

 

You cannot read the above quotes and still believe that there is salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
DHK

 

DKH,

You are also picking and choosing portions of the catechism to suite your own position.

Search Result
Catechism of the Catholic Church


819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

The above is taken directly from your link of the Catechism