Visited a Reformed Baptist Church

[evangelist6589]

Other than their eschatology and lack of evangelism I pretty much liked the church. Every know and then its good to get out and visit other non IFB like churches. Music was contemporary, and some on stage wore jeans. The pastor dressed business casual, and only a few members had a suit and tie. Sermon was excellent and the pastor did not dodge controversial issues as the sermon was on suffering gathered from the book of Acts. All preaching was from the ESV a excellent translation.

In SS the translation was also the ESV, but the church seems to favor according to a member the ESV/NASB/NIV as teachers have their prefs. SS was discussion based and Total Depravity, the effectual call of the spirit, Lordship Salvation, the holiness of God, the sovereignty of God in salvation, and such themes were emphasized. In SS I spoke and definitely did not miss to speak on the total depravity of man when the topic was appropriate to discuss and people agreed with what I said so no conflict.

The only difference was when we spoke about evangelism for a moment I said people need to be out passing out tracts and doing open air preaching, and the elder (church uses a biblical form of church government, and not the lack of elders that most Baptist churches use) said that living the life is our best witness. While this can be true, God commands people to be out witnessing and preaching the word (Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8). Since the church lacked a tract wall I got the picture that evangelism was not much of an emphasis which is sad. I had no conflict there and although I wanted to hand the elder a copy of the book The Way of the Master, or What did Jesus do? I thought it would be unwise.

Calvinists do not agree on this one and definitely there are other Reformed Baptist churches that would have a tract wall and would be very big on being out witnessing.

 

[annsni]

Since the church lacked a tract wall I got the picture that evangelism was not much of an emphasis which is sad.

Honestly, "tract walls" have long been abandoned. We teach that our people are to get out there and relate to people and not let a piece of paper do it. Get into the community. Meet people. Talk to them. Answer their questions.

As has been said before, I don't see one thing in the Bible that says to use tracts and "open air preaching" is not the norm in Scripture but being with people is.

 

[JonC]

I am glad you had the opportunity to visit the church. Did your family also visit, and if so did they also have a good experience?

I think the issue that you had is a minor one (this church probably suits you more than the IFB you have been attending). One thing about evangelism and street preaching is that times have changed. The Word of God remains the same, but the “street preachers” of yesterday are the television evangelists of today. Throughout history street preaching was done because it had a viable audience (it was not just the gospel being shared in that manner…that’s where “standing on a soap box” originated….it was a generally accepted public forum). Since the church would not be disobedient to Scripture if they rejected street preaching, I think that you made a wise decision on not pushing it on them.

I wish you the best & let us know how it goes (I take it this was a local church and you'll have the opportunity to visit often?)

 

[TadQueasy]

You visit a church one time and decide from the lack of a track wall that the church does not put any emphasis on evangelism?

Sigh.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am out open air preaching. I had some bikers circle around me, people kiss in front of me, I have been cussed out, and such. But I just had a chat with a Catholic.ci will reply to posts later.

 

[evangelist6589]

Honestly, "tract walls" have long been abandoned. We teach that our people are to get out there and relate to people and not let a piece of paper do it. Get into the community. Meet people. Talk to them. Answer their questions.



As has been said before, I don't see one thing in the Bible that says to use tracts and "open air preaching" is not the norm in Scripture but being with people is.

Many churches still use tracts

 

[wpe3bql]

Tracts can serve a purpose if used in an appropriate manner. OTOH, I agree with our dear sister annsi that tracts, by themselves, are a rather "lousy" way to do personal evangelism.

I've used tracts, but only as a graphic/written aid through which a person with which I've already developed some kind of personal "relationship" can read over and mull over not only what I've already said to him about the necessity of trusting Christ as his/her personal Savior.

Occasionally I'll also use tracts to give to children who come to my door on Halloween. I don't "believe in" Halloween, etc., but many of the families in my subdivision do. I look at giving their kids a tract that's written on their level that points them (and/or their parents) to the necessity of trusting Christ as their Savior--along with a candy bar or two--as a way by which I might even begin to develop a relationship with that family and possibly show them from God's Word why He came, why He chose to lay down His life for them, and why Jesus is the only way by which a person can receive eternal life.

But, as Sister Annsi posted, merely throwing a tract at some passerby, IMHO, is NOT "doing the work of an evangelist" as Paul encouraged Timothy to do in 2 Tim. 4:5.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Tracts can serve a purpose if used in an appropriate manner. OTOH, I agree with our dear sister annsi that tracts, by themselves, are a rather "lousy" way to do personal evangelism.

I used to think that, too. Then, I started using them.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am glad you had the opportunity to visit the church. Did your family also visit, and if so did they also have a good experience?

I think the issue that you had is a minor one (this church probably suits you more than the IFB you have been attending). One thing about evangelism and street preaching is that times have changed. The Word of God remains the same, but the “street preachers” of yesterday are the television evangelists of today. Throughout history street preaching was done because it had a viable audience (it was not just the gospel being shared in that manner…that’s where “standing on a soap box” originated….it was a generally accepted public forum). Since the church would not be disobedient to Scripture if they rejected street preaching, I think that you made a wise decision on not pushing it on them.

I wish you the best & let us know how it goes (I take it this was a local church and you'll have the opportunity to visit often?)

They are anti-Calvinist so it was just me this time. Times may have changed but the word of God has not changed. I think that this generation is just lazy and does not want to be out witnessing like they should be, so they make excuse after excuse not to do the work of the farmer. Street preaching can still be just as effective as it was before in previous generations.

Do you know in the book of Revelation God uses 2 street preachers to prophecy for 1260 days? This event has not yet occurred but I find it amazing that even God himself still prefers street preaching.

 

[evangelist6589]

Tracts can serve a purpose if used in an appropriate manner. OTOH, I agree with our dear sister annsi that tracts, by themselves, are a rather "lousy" way to do personal evangelism.

Tracts are a excellent way to do evangelism and they can do evangelism with thousands that do not have the time to speak with us.

 

[Rebel]

Let the man use tracts. He could be at home sitting on his behind doing nothing.

 

[JonC]

Do you know in the book of Revelation God uses 2 street preachers to prophecy for 1260 days? This event has not yet occurred but I find it amazing that even God himself still prefers street preaching.

Perhaps you should reexamine the passage. It is Revelation 11, which does not prove that God Himself still prefers street preaching (which I found to be an odd statement) anymore than it is evidence that these two prophets will be street preachers. In fact, some explain that Christ's return is more likely today based on technology and the ability for these events to be seen worldwide. Regardless, I think that your interpretation is more "left behind" than Scripture on this one.

They are anti-Calvinist so it was just me this time.

Well, I hope that you and your wife find a church home that you can feel a part of as a family. We have been "between churches" before and it is a restless feeling. Best wishes and God bless.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Other than their eschatology and lack of evangelism I pretty much liked the church. Every know and then its good to get out and visit other non IFB like churches. Music was contemporary, and some on stage wore jeans. The pastor dressed business casual, and only a few members had a suit and tie. Sermon was excellent and the pastor did not dodge controversial issues as the sermon was on suffering gathered from the book of Acts. All preaching was from the ESV a excellent translation.

In SS the translation was also the ESV, but the church seems to favor according to a member the ESV/NASB/NIV as teachers have their prefs. SS was discussion based and Total Depravity, the effectual call of the spirit, Lordship Salvation, the holiness of God, the sovereignty of God in salvation, and such themes were emphasized. In SS I spoke and definitely did not miss to speak on the total depravity of man when the topic was appropriate to discuss and people agreed with what I said so no conflict.

The only difference was when we spoke about evangelism for a moment I said people need to be out passing out tracts and doing open air preaching, and the elder (church uses a biblical form of church government, and not the lack of elders that most Baptist churches use) said that living the life is our best witness. While this can be true, God commands people to be out witnessing and preaching the word (Mark 16:15, Acts 1:8). Since the church lacked a tract wall I got the picture that evangelism was not much of an emphasis which is sad. I had no conflict there and although I wanted to hand the elder a copy of the book The Way of the Master, or What did Jesus do? I thought it would be unwise.

May I suggest that you take your criteria and make out a scorecard for this church and each of the others that you might visit. Here I'll help you get started.

WOTM Friendly
Yes (+250 Points)
No (-250 Points)

Jeans on Stage
Yes (-50 Points)
No (+50 Points)

Eschatology
Dispy (+150 Points)
All Others (-150 Points)

Tracts Readily Available
Yes (+100 Points)
No (-100 Points)

Music
Contemporary (-25 Points)
Traditional (+25 Points)

Number of Members With Suit And Tie
Less Than 50 (-25 Points)
More Than 50 (+25 Points)
All Men and Boys Wear Suits and Ties and Women and Girls Wear Poofy Dresses (+100 Points)

Bible Translation
KJV (+25 Points)
ESV (+50 Points)
NIV (-50 Points)

Polity
Congregationalist (-25 Points)
Elder Led (+25 Points)
Elder Ruled (+50 Points)

Open Air/Street Preaching
Supported By Church (+250 Points)
Frowned Upon By Church (-250 Points)

Once you get all the points tallied you can quickly discover exactly where God wants you to be. :thumbs:

 

[evangelist6589]

Perhaps you should reexamine the passage. It is Revelation 11, which does not prove that God Himself still prefers street preaching (which I found to be an odd statement) anymore than it is evidence that these two prophets will be street preachers. In fact, some explain that Christ's return is more likely today based on technology and the ability for these events to be seen worldwide. Regardless, I think that your interpretation is more "left behind" than Scripture on this one.


Well, I hope that you and your wife find a church home that you can feel a part of as a family. We have been "between churches" before and it is a restless feeling. Best wishes and God bless.

She can go to one church and I another.

 

[evangelist6589]

May I suggest that you take your criteria and make out a scorecard for this church and each of the others that you might visit. Here I'll help you get started.

WOTM Friendly
Yes (+250 Points)
No (-250 Points)

Jeans on Stage
Yes (-50 Points)
No (+50 Points)

Eschatology
Dispy (+150 Points)
All Others (-150 Points)

Tracts Readily Available
Yes (+100 Points)
No (-100 Points)

Music
Contemporary (-25 Points)
Traditional (+25 Points)

Number of Members With Suit And Tie
Less Than 50 (-25 Points)
More Than 50 (+25 Points)
All Men and Boys Wear Suits and Ties and Women and Girls Wear Poofy Dresses (+100 Points)

Bible Translation
KJV (+25 Points)
ESV (+50 Points)
NIV (-50 Points)

Polity
Congregationalist (-25 Points)
Elder Led (+25 Points)
Elder Ruled (+50 Points)

Open Air/Street Preaching
Supported By Church (+250 Points)
Frowned Upon By Church (-250 Points)

Once you get all the points tallied you can quickly discover exactly where God wants you to be. :thumbs:

Is this a joke?

A contemporary worship service would be a positive for me but then again it depends on the type of Contemporary. Using the NIV would also be a positive, but using the ESV a larger positive. I also may have to lower the score on WOTM since not many in the area are aware or support it. WOTM has more support in southern California, Texas, among other places.

Also being WOTM only will not do it for me. I visited a church in Aurora a while back that was WOTM Only, however they lacked Sunday School, were way too contemporary which made me feel like I was at a Rock N Roll concert, and had some other problems. Granted I loved their evangelism philosophy as they hit the ball on the head in that category. But I am not a Charismatic so I could not attend.

 

[InTheLight]

She can go to one church and I another.

This is so wrong on many levels.

 

[evangelist6589]

This is so wrong on many levels.

Unfortunately nothing I can do about it.

 

[InTheLight]

Unfortunately nothing I can do about it.

Can't do anything about it or won't do anything about it?

 

[Don]

She can go to one church and I another.

A house divided cannot stand.

 

[JonC]

I'll space this out a bit:

A contemporary worship service would be a positive for me

but then again it depends on the type of Contemporary.

Using the NIV would also be a positive

but using the ESV a larger positive.

Also being WOTM only will not do it for me.

they lacked Sunday School

were way too contemporary

made me feel like I was at a Rock N Roll concert,

and had some other problems.

Granted I loved their evangelism philosophy

But I am not a Charismatic so I could not attend.

Church would be OK if it was not for all the people, right? I am not trying to be over critical, Evan, but it looks to me that you are looking for a local church that is exactly like you. If you have not been expelled from your former church (where your family attends) then my suggestion would be to go there and be the spiritual head of your family as you all work as members of the same church body. It may not be the closest to your opinion, views, or liking....but you have told us that they are a true church. Stop looking at your wants and needs and look at the needs of others. If it were not for my family, I would probably change churches also. But I cannot allow my preferences to dictate my actions or control my worship. Like I said, I'm not trying to be critical. Just some free advice.