Vitimization

[DeeJay]

Please be careful when going to the website listed above. one of the sites is affiliated with Alex Jones, and you will probably get you on the FBI watch list. I have seen him on C-SPAN and have heard him on that network that is named after a Book in the Bible. :laugh:

Seriously, I always tease anyone who puts up a link to his sites, all in good fun! That is the first one I have seen in a while.

Regards, hope all is well in your world,
BiR

LOL, The FBI is welcome to watch me. If they can stand the bordom.

On another note. I went thru and read the post that the quote in the OP of this thread came from. I dont want to be assosiated with the post, poster or ideas that the quote is from. I think it was discusting and as somebody said in that thread "just a way to justify racist thoughts". I am just trying to deal with the public relations about why people feel that way sometimes. I think people like Jackson, Sharpton, people that think the levies were bombed and people that use the race card on every instance along with bad policies like Afirmitive Action, do a disserves to the majorty good people in the black community. Just a disclamer, but I am not to worried, my past posts speak for themselfs about whats in my heart.

 

[DeeJay]

Yes, but is being noticed the same as being believed? There are radicals in any community. Why would the NBP be any different than the radicals in white or even Arab communities? Yes, you will the ones who will believe what they say, but I am not sure that that can be considered even a small minority. Even if every black person in NO believed this, which of course is highly unlikely, that is still relatively small considering the larger black population.

They are no different. We can deal with those communities if you wish. I dont believe they speak for the majority but I am worried that the ideas are held by more then just a few. If I am wrong then, I am glad. I just wish the opposite view were spoken just as loud.

I dont believe what they say. I also work in an area where those ideas are more of a majority in law enforcement. Your point is taken though.

I was once accused of being racist because of something stupid that I did. It was not ment racist and everybody knew it, but it was used against me. The only thing that saved my job was dozens of co-workers that testified that they have never ever heard me useing a racial slur. But I was worried for a while.

 

[Filmproducer]

Filmproducer

Since you brought up Condi I have question. Why is it that the Republican party and/or Bush administration has not been given more credit for the diversity in appointments to high level jobs? It seems that there has been a huge inprovement in diversity over even the last administration. Why is there no recognitionfor that?

Alberto Gonzales, Condoleezza Rice, Margaret Spellings, Carlos Gutierrez, Elaine Chao, Mary E. Peters, Alphonso Jackson.

Yet, it seems that charges of racism are still being leveled at Republicans. It seems that according to some vocal people in the black community to be Republican is the same as being racist. Do they not know the facts or are they being misleading to lead people who do not know the facts?

Honestly I don't know. I have not heard anything regarding the Bush administration and lack of diversity. There are many leading Black Republicans that are respected in the black community. Take Colin Powell, for instance, in '95 I believe it was, there was a huge petition push to get him to run in the next Presidential election. The petition was organized and supported by many black communities. People like to draw party lines to get more votes, not necessarily because one party is more racist than another. I suspect that more black people do not support Republicans because they don't actively support the issues most important to them. However, this is neither here nor there considering there are Black Republicans.

 

[Tentmaker]

Whoops! I thought this was a discussion on vitamins.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Please. someone give us clear and specific examples of black people who do not get CEO positions because of the color of their skin. Names, dates, companies, etc.

It is easy to claim discrimination when you do not have to name specifics to back it up. But if you are part of the Socialist movement that can only be advanced through the making of victims then this type of hyperboble and out right distortions is justified.

 

[billwald]

I think the Egyptians should pay the Jews reparations for being forced to build the Pyramids.

How about a 40 year statute of limitations on all such matters including real estate obtained by winning a war?

My theory is that after the Civil Rights Act of '62 the black people who want to join civilized America have done so and those who are satisfied to live like white trash have done so.

It seems obvious to me that the young people are ignoring race, color, religion, and national origin to form alliances on the basis of a common ambition, intelligence, and education. In 40 years the world will be divided into a ruling class and a worker class. In other words, a voluntary "Brave New World."

The rulers, being much smarter than our rulers were in the last two centuries, will understand that it takes bread (cheap food, cheap booze, cheap clothing and housing) and circuses (sports channel, cheap vacations, cheap toys) to keep the workers pacified. The workers will be satisfied because they will have been genetically selected for dullness of ambition and intellect. Most will never understand that they are getting the short end of the stick. They will think that life is fair because they will be permitted to vote for their political leaders, just like the Rs and Ds think we have a fair system.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I could use a little vitimization. I probably lack c, and b the most. My energy has been down lately. Maybe a litle iron will help as well.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Most African Americans have NOT lived in the 'VICTIM' mindset since the 60's/

However, the results of prejudice are not removed in a generation or two.

My ancestors were indentured by the British, it definitely changed the way my entire family interacted with Americans around us. But, African Americans come from a racial/social group that was subjugated for much longer than a mere 7 years. Expecting one group of people to change much more quickly than the other group is setting one group up as a 'superior' race.

I believe that both races are equal, and that it takes people generations to assimilate into 'general' population.

The difference with this issue is that an African American often feels like he or she stands out in a crowd . . .

IMHO that is.

Sooner or later, Guero would have to post something I agree with him upon.

 

[carpro]

Now for the government response I have heard and read many stories on the difference in response time had to do with socioeconomics, not race.

"Black people are mad because they feel the reason for the slow response is because those people are black and they didn't support George Bush," said Ron Walters, a professor of government and politics at the University of Maryland. "And I don't expect that feeling to go away anytime soon."


"The Rev. Jesse Jackson charged that race was "at least a factor" in the slow response.

"We have an amazing tolerance for black pain," he told CNN on Friday. "

 

[Filmproducer]

Please. someone give us clear and specific examples of black people who do not get CEO positions because of the color of their skin. Names, dates, companies, etc.

It is easy to claim discrimination when you do not have to name specifics to back it up. But if you are part of the Socialist movement that can only be advanced through the making of victims then this type of hyperboble and out right distortions is justified.

Who is really claiming this? Sure there are going to be some people who cry discrimination, but I certainly would not say a majority of them. The whole point of the thread was discuss if people really believe that the majority of black people in America live in a constant state of "victimnization".

On the other hand, can someone please give clear and specific and recent examples of black people being hired over more qualified white people? Names, dates, companies, etc.

 

[hillclimber1]

I believe J. Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the like, are totally invested in the division of the races. Their incomes would shrink drastically if their constituency were to open their eyes and notice that America is integrated and that ANYONE with the capability, can rise as far in the economic climb as they want.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I believe J. Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the like, are totally invested in the division of the races. Their incomes would shrink drastically if their constituency were to open their eyes and notice that America is integrated and that ANYONE with the capability, can rise as far in the economic climb as they want.

Except that America isn't integrated, and not everyone can rise as high as they want to.

 

[Filmproducer]

I believe J. Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the like, are totally invested in the division of the races. Their incomes would shrink drastically if their constituency were to open their eyes and notice that America is integrated and that ANYONE with the capability, can rise as far in the economic climb as they want.

Maybe by the soundbites in the news, but in reality they are working to change things in the community. That is not just the "black community", but more specifically the poor community. Jackson definitely more than Sharpton. How can you discount the programs of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition as an investment in the division of races? I could understand your argument if you were saying they were working towards a division of classes or even ideologies, but not race. If your assessment were true why would Sharpton on national televison, (Hardball with Chris Matthews), not openly support Barak Obama for POTUS over Clinton and Edwards? If your assessment were true wouldn't you think he would be gung-ho trying to get the first black man elected to the POTUS?

 

[rbell]

On the other hand, can someone please give clear and specific and recent examples of black people being hired over more qualified white people? Names, dates, companies, etc.

The state of Alabama is currently litigating several reverse discrimination cases. I'll find more examples...here's one: http://wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?s=1970657

Please don't think I'm coming down on ya with the link. In Alabama, we could find a whole lot more examples of racial prejudice from the white side, IMO. But it does happen both ways.

Let's face it: power can corrupt. If a white man in power wants to, he can discriminate. Many have. Some still do. Likewise...if a black man in power wants to, he can discriminate. Many have (because of opportunity, I think much fewer than white folk). Some still do.

I hope every last one of them get caught for doing so...racism is a stench in the nostrils of a holy God.

The key IMO is for society, when they see racial discrimination, to call folks out on it. There are still some bigots out there that practice it. There are others that have turned racism into an industry or means to acquire a following (folks who profit from racial strife; white separatists, black separatists, those who encourage racial strife and hatred).

And the ultimate key is that no hint of racial-based hatred be found anywhere in God's church.

 

[carpro]

On the other hand, can someone please give clear and specific and recent examples of black people being hired over more qualified white people? Names, dates, companies, etc.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=53144

Michael Price, George Williams, Mike Perryman and Nolen Sauls

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_5_16/ai_54668694

Howard E. McNier


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DEFDF1E3FF936A25753C1A9679C8B63

Published: October 15, 2001

Five Irvington school administrators have settled a reverse discrimination lawsuit they filed against the district for $1.25 million. School officials approved the settlement on Friday during a hearing before Judge Nicholas H. Politan of district court. The money will be paid over a five-year period, with the school district paying $500,000 and the New Jersey School Board Association Insurance Group paying $750,000. The plaintiffs, all current or former principals and vice principals, filed suit against the district in 1998, claiming it had engaged in a pattern of discrimination against white employees


There are hundreds. Most don't bother to file suit.

Affirmative action has set the cause of racial equality and eliminating racial discrimination back by years, if not decades.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Colin Ferguson wasn't charged with a hate crime. That's a pretty good example of reverse racism.


Summary: On December 7, 1993 Colin Ferguson boarded a Long Island commuter train and began shooting the passengers with a Ruger P-89 9mm pistol. The incident known as the Long Island Railroad Massacre resulted in six people being killed and 19 injured.
Personal Information: Born - January 14, 1958
Birthplace - Jamaica
Gender - Male
Religion - Unknown
Ethnicity - Black

Crime Events: According to trial testimony, Ferguson suffered from extreme paranoia involving many races but it was mostly centered around the feeling that white people were out to get him. At some point his paranoia pushed him into devising a plan of revenge. In order to avoid embarrassing New York City mayor David Dinkins, Ferguson selected a commuter train headed to Nassau County. Once the train entered Nassau, Ferguson began shooting, selecting specific white people to gun down and sparing others. The reasons for his selection of who to shoot and who not was never made clear.
As he stopped to reload his gun for the third time he was overpowered by three passengers and held down until the police arrived. After a bizarre trial in which Ferguson represented himself, he was found guilty and sentenced to 200 years in prison.

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/frguson.htm


You'll note that he was found guilty, not insane. Hate crime laws should have covered him and would of, had he been white.

 

[Filmproducer]

Colin Ferguson wasn't charged with a hate crime. That's a pretty good example of reverse racism.


Summary: On December 7, 1993 Colin Ferguson boarded a Long Island commuter train and began shooting the passengers with a Ruger P-89 9mm pistol. The incident known as the Long Island Railroad Massacre resulted in six people being killed and 19 injured.
Personal Information: Born - January 14, 1958
Birthplace - Jamaica
Gender - Male
Religion - Unknown
Ethnicity - Black

Crime Events: According to trial testimony, Ferguson suffered from extreme paranoia involving many races but it was mostly centered around the feeling that white people were out to get him. At some point his paranoia pushed him into devising a plan of revenge. In order to avoid embarrassing New York City mayor David Dinkins, Ferguson selected a commuter train headed to Nassau County. Once the train entered Nassau, Ferguson began shooting, selecting specific white people to gun down and sparing others. The reasons for his selection of who to shoot and who not was never made clear.
As he stopped to reload his gun for the third time he was overpowered by three passengers and held down until the police arrived. After a bizarre trial in which Ferguson represented himself, he was found guilty and sentenced to 200 years in prison.

http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/frguson.htm


You'll note that he was found guilty, not insane. Hate crime laws should have covered him and would of, had he been white.

No they would have covered him if they had been enacted at the time of his crime. He was found guilty, what more do you want? New York did not pass hate crime legislation until 2000, his shooting rampage was in 1993. We cannot go back and retroactively apply new laws to old crimes. Clearly this man was delusional and lived in an insane state of victimizaion, not hardly the case to prove the majority of other black people agree with him, and that is what the thread is about.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Well, thanx for the correction.

I found this little tidbit, I found it interesting....

Determining what constitutes a hate crime leads to all manner of logical absurdities. For instance: Did a black thief target a white person for robbery because he is white, or did he study the latest socioeconomic data and see that by robbing a white person he is more likely to maximize his potential income? The first would be a hate crime. The second would not.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_2_19/ai_96238191

 

[Filmproducer]

Affirmative action has set the cause of racial equality and eliminating racial discrimination back by years, if not decades.

That may be so, but it was not always. Whether we like to admit it or not at one point in history affirmative action was necessary. Is it necessary now? In most cases I say no probably not. I just don't think we can make blanket statements claiming there is no discrimination of black or other minorities in the workplace. I also do not believe that other minorities do not discriminate. There are obvious cases of black employers or managers using reverse discrimination. I think there needs to be a balance, as I said about racial profiling. we cannot say it never happens, just as we cannot be quick to claim discrimination in all situations.

Even with the cases you and rbell posted, does this mean that majority of black people would do the same thing? Do they somehow feel victimized and wish to retaliate? I still don't think there is case to claim the majority of black people are living in this bubble.

 

[carpro]

That may be so, but it was not always. Whether we like to admit it or not at one point in history affirmative action was necessary.

What you are saying, in effect, is that the way to cure racial discrimination was to create more of it and provide government sanction for it.

Cockeyed. Always was. Still is.:BangHead: