Vote to bar churches with women pastors fails again at SBC Annual Meeting

[5 point Gillinist]

No it is a great question that you do not have a good answer for.

No, it isn't. But I've noticed that yourself and Van seem to be very good at not answering people's objections but instead brining up things which are completely irrelevant and/or responding to a question with an irrelevant question of your own before declaring yourselves to be the victors. It's amusing, but it makes for poor debate over ideas.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Women in Ministry Ethos Statement - FIEC

FIEC's position on the role of women in the church, the biblical reasoning, and implications for churches, to which FIEC churches agree to abide.

fiec.org.uk

 

[Silverhair]

No, it isn't. But I've noticed that yourself and Van seem to be very good at not answering people's objections but instead brining up things which are completely irrelevant and/or responding to a question with an irrelevant question of your own before declaring yourselves to be the victors. It's amusing, but it makes for poor debate over ideas.

It is something that we picked up form all the calvinists on this board.

But you still did not answer the question did you? Under your calvinist divine determinism all those women teachers/preachers must have been put there by God or how could they have gotten there? Did they do something that God did not determine for them to do.

Your the divine determinists so you must have a really good answer or at least make the attempt at one.

 

[Zaatar71]

No, it isn't. But I've noticed that yourself and Van seem to be very good at not answering people's objections but instead brining up things which are completely irrelevant and/or responding to a question with an irrelevant question before declaring yourselves to be the victors. It's amusing, but it makes for poor debate over ideas.

So Van is a suspect then? What is the strangest things that you see him Post?

 

[5 point Gillinist]

It is something that we picked up form all the calvinists on this board.

But you still did not answer the question did you? Under your calvinist divine determinism all those women teachers/preachers must have been put there by God or how could they have gotten there? Did they do something that God did not determine for them to do.

Your the divine determinists so you must have a really good answer or at least make the attempt at one.

No, I didn't. Your question is completely irrelevant. Aside from the fact that you didn't answer my response. Your question belongs in the C vs. A forum. Feel free to post it there.

 

[Silverhair]

No, I didn't. Your question is completely irrelevant. Aside from the fact that you didn't answer my response. Your question belongs in the C vs. A forum. Feel free to post it there.

Can't handle the basic question can you. The logic of your religion has painted you in a corner.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Can't handle the basic question can you. The logic of your religion has painted you in a corner.

I've noticed that you seem to be very good at not answering people's objections but instead brining up things which are completely irrelevant and/or responding to a question with an irrelevant question of your own before declaring yourselves to be the victors.

Thank you for proving my point. If you are unable to interact with what I said in regard to the OP, then I suggest you stop displaying your foolishness thinking that it somehow makes you look intellectual.

 

[Silverhair]

Thank you for proving my point. If you are unable to interact with what I said in regard to the OP, then I suggest you stop displaying your foolishness thinking that it somehow makes you look intellectual.

Can't answer a simple question as it would show the errors of your religion.

I suggest you stop displaying your foolishness thinking that it somehow makes you look intellectual.

 

[canadyjd]

The person asking the question “since you believe God determines everything why don’t you accept God decreed women to be pastors” can’t comprehend the truth of scripture found in 1 Timothy, or simply finds a way to dismiss it as not applying to his way of thinking.

The difference is what God accepts as fulfilling His decrees. For instance, marriage is between one man and one woman for life. God allows (according to Jesus) divorce in certain instances because of the hardness of our hearts. But the truth is “God hates divorce”. By this poster’s reasoning, since God allows divorce, He must have decreed the divorce.

No doubt, the poster will say, “that’s what you believe”, just proving again they don’t comprehend reformed theology.

God is not the author of evil. He does allow it to happen and uses it for the good of His elect. To have a female pastor goes directly against God’s word. It is evil. If you look at churches that have female pastors, many use the same reasoning as one poster has put forth to accept all sorts of evil into the church.

I trust God’s sovereignty. In some way He will use this for His glory.

But just because God will hit straight with a crooked stick doesn’t mean we should ignore His word and accept women as pastor/elder.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

The person asking the question “since you believe God determines everything why don’t you accept God decreed women to be pastors” can’t comprehend the truth of scripture found in 1 Timothy, or simply finds a way to dismiss it as not applying to his way of thinking.

The difference is what God accepts as fulfilling His decrees. For instance, marriage is between one man and one woman for life. God allows (according to Jesus) divorce in certain instances because of the hardness of our hearts.

God is not the author of evil. He does allow it to happen and uses it for the good of His elect. To have a female pastor goes directly against God’s word. It is evil. If you look at churches that have female pastors, many use the same reasoning as one poster has put forth to accept all sorts of evil into the church.

I trust God’s sovereignty. In some way He will use this for His glory.

But just because God will hit straight with a crooked stick doesn’t mean we should ignore His word and accept women as pastor/elder.

Peace to you

For someone that says that God is sovereign you sure do not want to let Him be sovereign.

Besides I have yet to see @5 point Gillinist give an answer as to why he disagrees with the fact that God decreed that women be teacher/pastors.

You say having female pastor goes against God's word but why would He decree all those male pastors to fall into such grievous sin?

Now if you say that what Paul said still applies as it is scripture I have to ask when was the last time that you carried a sword with you when you spoke to anyone about the gospel? Luke 22:36

Paul was speaking to a culture that did not value the word of a woman. You tread the bible as if it were carved in stone and nothing can change. God does not change but the way He reaches His people does.

 

[Reynolds]

I know you come from the calvinist perspective and what surprises me is for someone that thinks God has determined all things then why do you think He did not determine women to preach?

Probably for the same reason He determined you to be wrong about EVERYthing.

 

[Reynolds]

Can't handle the basic question can you. The logic of your religion has painted you in a corner.

The basic problem is you don’t understand Calvinism. Hyper Calvinists are a rarity, but you try to paint Calvinism with the beliefs of the very rare hyper Calvinists.

 

[Silverhair]

Probably for the same reason He determined you to be wrong about EVERYthing.

Well since He did not do that as I have rejected calvinism so that proves your comment wrong.

But as usual none of the calvinists can give a logical answer as to why they disagree with female pastors as by their own words God has determined everything.

Calvinists do have some real problems with their religion.

 

[Silverhair]

The basic problem is you don’t understand Calvinism. Hyper Calvinists are a rarity, but you try to paint Calvinism with the beliefs of the very rare hyper Calvinists.

Actually calvinists paint all you calvinists with the beliefs of the hyper cal's.

“Compatibilism is no less deterministic than hard determinism.” [Calvinist {John Hendryx, How can God be Sovereign and Man still be Free?}]

Soft determinism / compatibilism holds that there is human free will and that we are free, but redefines freedom to mean that we do what we want even if God determines what we want and we cannot do otherwise. They say we are free since God determines what we desire, and then we do what we desire.

But contrary to your claim I do not understand calvinism, actually I understand it quite well and that is why I oppose it.

The real problem is that many who call themselves do not really understand calvinism and where it comes from or perhaps they just rather ignore where it came from.

 

[Dr. Bob]

WARNING:

Back on topic please, not nit-picking at Calvinism/Arminian for which we have another forum.

Anyone opt to try to skew this away from the issue of the SBC's vote in favor but NOT a big enough majority to dismiss churches that have ordained women as pastors. THAT is the topic.

Want a vacation? Rant on and on and on about calvinism. Come on, people.

 

[Ben1445]

So what we see in Adam and Eve are not leadership examples.

But this is the example and proof of concept given in Scripture on the topic.

 

[Ben1445]

Read what Paul wrote.

I am saying it says what it says. But I do not read verses in isolation as some are want to do. The whole council of God says we are all equal in Christ so why does man then say we are not equal?

The one place that I have not seen men and women equal is in the abuse of the ones they are shepherding. That seems to be a male thing. So I am not so sure I would jump to defend the men only can preach the word of God.

Why do you oh man question what God does with His church?

I question what a woman pastor is doing with His church.

 

[canadyjd]

The issue of women not being allowed in pastor/elder roles has nothing to do with the “value” of women in the church.

In fact, the teachings of scripture, specifically those of the Apostle Paul, have done more to recognize the value of women in the church and society than any other teaching in history.

It is in the area of the church and the home that God has clearly decreed male leadership.

Paul did not say women were less intelligent than men. Paul did not say women were less effective speakers than men. Paul did not even say women would be less effective leaders than men.

Paul gave his reason for the prohibition and he referred to scripture, not culture. Adam was created first. Eve was deceived.

I had this discussion 30 years ago and the arguments are the same. When I pointed out Paul’s reference to scripture in his prohibition to a man that later became the president of a major religious university… he told me he disagreed with Paul’s interpretation of the OT.

I have found that sentiment consistent in this debate. Folks know what scripture says. They don’t like it, so they find a way to dismiss it.

Peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

Well since He did not do that as I have rejected calvinism so that proves your comment wrong.

But as usual none of the calvinists can give a logical answer as to why they disagree with female pastors as by their own words God has determined everything.

Calvinists do have some real problems with their religion.

Your post is so ridiculous on its face that it deserves no response.

 

[Ben1445]

And look where that view has gotten us. We have to many men that have corrupted the church because those they were supposed shepherd would not question their authority.

It is not the authority that should be questioned, it is their teaching and exhortation, it is their preaching and doctrine that should be questioned.
We have less than noble church members.

Acts 17:11
-- These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Jesus chose twelve men. Look where that got us. If Jesus wanted women to be leaders, He would have chosen them also.

I find it surprising that those that claim to follow Jesus then deny what Jesus set out to accomplish., equality.

Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Your Bible says that He came to establish equality?

What was it that Paul said

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Mark 12:25
For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Till women and men are risen from the dead, there is a difference.

But then we are supposed to say that women are actually second class. Am I missing something here? Are we not all indwelt by the same Holy Spirit, is He not our guide?

Women make second class men.

The world is cursed by sin. There are broken families and terrible situations. Some are the fault of the people living in their situation. Some are in that situation for no fault of their own. The situation not being their fault doesn’t make their problem any better.
There is no doubt that a family that runs with a father as the head is a family that works better because it is set up the way God intended. When we try to reassign roles that God established, we will not benefit.

I agree that those that do not know the bible should not be teaching the bible to others but we let men do it all the time why is that?

That is a different problem.
Show me where you are instructed to assign a woman when she is better suited, humanly speaking, for the job.