Voting Day (Again) in Georgia

[JonC]

When the TITANIC sunk, SOME were rescued, others drowned.
Based on your logic, Jonc, it was an effort wasted, since ALL could not be rescued.
The fact that some drowned DOES NOT SUPPORT the idea that the rescuers "SUPPORTED" ( To Van - - "You support keeping 98.9% of abortions legal federally --") the drowning of all the victims!! This logic is as full of holes as a fishing net!!
Agree with Van (think it was) that said just because you have convictions does not mean that those convictions are legitimate or accurate. Sometimes an analysis is required!

That does not make sence.

I support anti-abortion organizations. They try, but do not save all unborn babies. They have better success than the GOP, but at a much smaller scale.

The difference is these ministries do not support keeping abortion through the 20th week legal.


I am not faulting Kemp for saying he would ban 57% of abortion in GA. I am faulting him for vowing to keep 43% of abortion legal in order to gain support for reducing abortion.

Let me ask you, are you comfortable saying you are committed to keeping abortion legal through the 20th week?

If not, then why support that with your vote?

 

[JonC]

I do not disagree that abortions should be illegal, except in the case of a medical condition that threatens the life of the mother.

The question is how do we accomplish that goal in this country.

Roe has been overturned. At this moment, the fate of abortion lies with the State legislatures. Those of us that are pro-life must engage in the debate at each state level. Not only arguing life begins at conception, but also the risks to the mother: the increase chances of miscarriages, uterine cancer, Brest cancer, uterine damage, hysterectomies, and even death during the procedure as well as phycological issues that last a life time.

To be effective in this debate so we can enact the best abortion laws that will save lives, we must do more than scream “YOU ARE KILLING BABIES!!!!!”

peace to you

The issue I have is in supporting abortion even if with the ultimate goal of reducing abortion.

Graham wants to commit to keeping abortion through the 15th week legal. The GOP is fighting this because they want to keep abortion through the 20th week legal.

Kemp vowed to keep abortion through the 6th week legal in Georgia.

Those are the things I cannot with good conscience get behind.

Were they to say "we are trying to ban abortion after the 20th week" that'd be one thing. But to get support they are also saying that they will keep abortion through the 20th week legal. That is a other thing.

Do you honestly not see the issue?

Kemp did not just say he would ban 57% of abortions on GA. He vowed to keep 43% legal.

 

[just-want-peace]

Jonc sez: "Let me ask you, are you comfortable saying you are committed to keeping abortion legal through the 20th week?

If not, then why support that with your vote?"

What I understand you as saying - If I vote to stop abortions after 20 weeks, then I am supporting abortion BEFORE 20 WEEKS!
Am I interpreting this correctly?? If so, then what you say is hogwash!!

Ergo If I DON'T vote to stop abortions after 20 weeks, then I'm morally superior because I didn't vote to stop those abortions AFTER 20 weeks & the goal is no abortions after 0 weeks, IOW, illegal? Meanwhile the ball continues rolling unhindered!!!!

Pelosi would absolutely love your logic!!!!

 

[Van]

I am sorry that you cannot tolerate other views.

I said that you are against abortion, but that you support abortion (the amount of abortion supported by the GOP) by supporting the GOP.

That, my friend, is fact. It isn't even close to my opinion, which I did not offer.

When we vote for a platform we support (actively support) that platform even if we disagree with parts of it.

Same with anti-abortion Democrats. Like you, they are opposed to abortion but support it via their vote.

Yet another material false statement post.

Make no mistake, @Van . While you and I are against abortion in principle you support the decision to kill babies as a state issue in practice. You support killing unborn babies as long as they are under 20 weeks old by your voice (15 weeks old by Grahams standard).

You are anti-abortion in theiry, but in practice you suggest supporting 98.9% of the abortions performed in the US. You suggest supporting each states right to decide for itself whether to kill babies.​

 

[canadyjd]

The issue I have is in supporting abortion even if with the ultimate goal of reducing abortion.

Graham wants to commit to keeping abortion through the 15th week legal. The GOP is fighting this because they want to keep abortion through the 20th week legal.

Kemp vowed to keep abortion through the 6th week legal in Georgia.

Those are the things I cannot with good conscience get behind.

Were they to say "we are trying to ban abortion after the 20th week" that'd be one thing. But to get support they are also saying that they will keep abortion through the 20th week legal. That is a other thing.

Do you honestly not see the issue?

Kemp did not just say he would ban 57% of abortions on GA. He vowed to keep 43% legal.

I don’t understand how you conclude I “don’t see the issue” from what I posted.

Your position is a total abortion ban. No exceptions.

Additionally, your position is that anyone that doesn’t support your position of a total abortion ban, no exceptions, is supporting the killing babies.

Do I understand your position correctly?

If I understand your position correctly, then as a matter of political reality, your position has no chance of effecting laws at the state or federal levels, as it will be deemed extreme by the majority of citizens.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Do I understand your position correctly?

No, you misunderstood me.

I know politics is a compromise, and understand they must start somewhere.

I am absolutely fine with the GOP trying to federally ban abortions at 20+ weeks. That would reduce abortions (by 1.1%). Great work. They realize that may be what they can get now and it saves lives.

The issue is that to get political support they are actively supporting keeping abortions legal different gestation periods.

Kemp vowed to PROTECT abortion through the 6th week. Granted, he did this to get support. And granted, he supports banning abortions over 6 weeks (57% of abortions in GA).

BUT he committed GA to protecting the woman's right to get an abortion through the 6th week (he vowed to keep 43% of abortions legal).


I would not have an issue with Kemp saying he would ban abortions over the 6 week mark. I do have an issue with Kemp committing to protect abortion through that mark.

 

[JonC]

Additionally, your position is that anyone that doesn’t support your position of a total abortion ban, no exceptions, is supporting the killing babies.

No.

My position is that anyone who supports keeping abortion legal through the 20th week (or the 15th week, or the 6th week) is supporting abortion.

The reason I believe this is that I view supporting keeping abortion legal as supporting abortion.

 

[JonC]

Yet another material false statement post.

Make no mistake, @Van . While you and I are against abortion in principle you support the decision to kill babies as a state issue in practice. You support killing unborn babies as long as they are under 20 weeks old by your voice (15 weeks old by Grahams standard).

You are anti-abortion in theiry, but in practice you suggest supporting 98.9% of the abortions performed in the US. You suggest supporting each states right to decide for itself whether to kill babies.​

The GOP has committed to keeping abortion legal at the federal level through the 20th week.

They did this to gain support in restricting abortion after the 20th week.

You advocated voting GOP.

When we vote for a party we ate supporting g its platform.

By voting GOP you support the GOP platform.

The GOP platform includes keeping abortion legal through the 20th week (Grahsm is trying to change this to the 15th week, but does not have enough support).

You are anti-abortion. You believe abortion is wrong. BUT you support keeping abortion legal through the 20th week by voting for the GOP. You support abortion by your vote.

 

[canadyjd]

No, you misunderstood me.

I know politics is a compromise, and understand they must start somewhere.

I am absolutely fine with the GOP trying to federally ban abortions at 20+ weeks. That would reduce abortions (by 1.1%). Great work. They realize that may be what they can get now and it saves lives.

The issue is that to get political support they are actively supporting keeping abortions legal different gestation periods.

Kemp vowed to PROTECT abortion through the 6th week. Granted, he did this to get support. And granted, he supports banning abortions over 6 weeks (57% of abortions in GA).

BUT he committed GA to protecting the woman's right to get an abortion through the 6th week (he vowed to keep 43% of abortions legal).


I would not have an issue with Kemp saying he would ban abortions over the 6 week mark. I do have an issue with Kemp committing to protect abortion through that mark.

Two issues with abortion, imo. The government response/law and the church/Christian response.

As Christians, we show folks a better way than abortion. We offer counseling and support before and after birth.

As voting citizens of the state, we make choices concerning the environment the Christian work is completed in. If Kemp bans abortion after 6 weeks (meaning abortion is legal up to 6 weeks) then the Christian work is significantly different than a state where abortion is legal up to the moment of full term birth, and in some cases even after the birth if the mother was going to abort the full term baby but the baby was born before it could be killed.

I wouldn’t go so far as saying someone “supports” abortion if they favor a post 6, 15, or 20 week ban. But we can disagree.

Peace to you

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EST / 7 pm PST

 

[JonC]

If Kemp bans abortion after 6 weeks (meaning abortion is legal up to 6 weeks) then the Christian work is significantly different than a state where abortion is legal up to the moment of full term birth, and in some cases even after the birth if the mother was going to abort the full term baby but the baby was born before it could be killed.

I wouldn’t go so far as saying someone “supports” abortion if they favor a post 6, 15, or 20 week ban. But we can disagree.

Peace to you

If Kemp bans abortion after 6 weeks.....I have NO problem with that.

What we seem to be ignoring is Kemp promised to protect abortion in Georgia through the 6th week.

That is facilitating abortion. It is supporting abortion by protecting it (through the 6th week)

And those who vote for Kemp vote for what he said he would do - to include protecting 43% of GA abortions.

How is voting for Kemp not supporting his platform??

 

[JonC]

@canadyjd

Look at it this way.

If I run for Governor and say that I will ban killing 57% of the unborn children and to get support say that I will make sure people can kill 43% of the unborn children, and you vote for me, then you are supporting my platform....the whole thing (even the parts with which you disagree).

I do not care about getting your ideas or beliefs. I care about getting your support.

That is why I made two promises.

1. Ban 57% of abortions.
2. Protect 43% of abortions.

You can't vote for me without actively supporting both promises because that is what I promised to do if elected.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 10 pm EST / 7 pm PST

This thread is closed
Feel free to start a new one - and if so - be sure to link this page