Voting in the church

There is a thread in progress on the subject of pastors in this very same forum. And yes, I am serious. If a person is old enough to accept Christ and be baptized, they have voting rights in the church. Remember Isaiah: "...and a child shall lead them..."

How exactly does your church work? These are very basic principles to our faith.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Could I get some references for that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm running out of time, but let me give you a quick one. Acts 6:1ff, as discussed earlier, shows that the congregation was directed by the apostles to select seven qualified men. The church presented them to the apostles who laid hands on them. I'll be happy to post more references later when I have the time. In the meanwhile, check out www.founders.org and look at the library section. J.L. Dagg's Manual of Church Order as well as the section of essays under "Baptist Polity" in historical perspective will provide you with Biblical insight in this matter. Peruse that and I'll get back to you.

By the way, are you sure you're Baptist? You sound more Catholic or Presbyterian


[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

You know, charity goes a long way

UNP
Adam

 

&lt; The pastor is the head of the local church. &gt;

Pigslop! Where does scripture say anyone other than Christ is the head of a/the/any church?

Ephesians 1:22-- And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 4:15-- but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

Colossians 1:18-- He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Colossians 2:10-- in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

 

You're avoiding God's Word, Chriak. You ask for Scripture, yet you don't interact with it. And you're clouding the issue. The pastor/elder(s) lead(s) the church. The deacons serve the church. But the church governs itself. Why is that so hard for you to understand? No one outside or inside the church makes decisions for the church. The church calls its own pastor, not a denominational board or presbytery. The church decides how it supports missions, evangelism, etc., not a governing body or denominational office. You're failing to see the distinction. You're blurring the roles and ignoring the NT differences. I bet your pastor is glad the church votes, because he wouldn't have a church if they didn't (unless you're methodist or another denom where some executive somewhere assigned him to your church) now would he??? Maybe you're into this modern-day, Pastor as CEO model, run the church like you'd run WalMart, where everyone is his underlings. Pity that people reject the NT teaching about church order.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
Why, because I ask for scripture to back up what you are saying?...
The pastor is the head of the local church. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now I am asking you for scripture to back up what you're saying. Where does the Bible teach that the pastor is the head of the local church???

 

I'll take a sip of coffee while I wait for your answer on the head of the church,

but in the meantime you might want to consider the following practice from the book of Acts:
1:23-25, "they" (the 120, the church body) appointed two men and "they" gave forth their lots.
6:1-7, "they" (the body, the church) chose the deacons and the apostles laid hands on them.
10:46-48, Peter sought the affirmation of the brethren who were with him before baptizing the Gentile converts.
13:1-4, the church at Antioch (the whole body) recognized God's choice of Paul & Barnabas and sent them away with their blessing.
15:22, the apostles and elders did not make a unilateral decision, but it was rather a whole church decision.

 

Well, I'll put up my coffee . I see you posted an answer while I was typing up my post. Thanks for the clarification.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> What I do not understand is where in scripture does the flock make the decisions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've been posted numerous Scripture references on this. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Also, God's structure throughout the Word has one man leading others. No committees or counsels. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>See Acts 15. Again, you've had numerous Scripture passages quoted to you, yet you do not interact with them or even recognize them.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> By the way, my church does not vote and we are an independent baptist church of close to 4,000 members. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then how'd you get a pastor? Did he appoint himself? How'd you ever come together as a church in the first place? A church that abdicates its responsibility for congregational participation violates NT principles. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> My brother is a youth minister in one of your "convention's" churches. By what he tells me, committees and boards are used for decision making above the local level. He even told me of "pulpit fillers", a person that is appointed to fill vacant pulpits.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not true. You are either misunderstanding your brother or he is misunderstanding SB polity (something lots of people do). No committee, person, board, whatever, has any authority in a SB church. As for "pulpit fillers," I can only assume you mean preachers who are retired or not pastoring anywhere that a church can call to come preach when the pastor is out or when the church is without a pastor. This is not done like Methodists or other denoms where someone is assigned.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand.....

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
Do you all know who else uses certain verses in Acts to confirm their beliefs? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>YOU DO. See your next to last post. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:1-4, 1 Tim. 3:4-5<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
I wish to apologize for the waste of time this has caused. I was new to this board and thought it would have a stronger hold on the Bible. e.g. people that understand that Acts is a transition book that gives an historical view on the church in the early stages of its development.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>chriaskc, I suspect from the tenor of your posts that you did not come here to learn, nor did you wish to do much more than argue about voting in church. I hope I am wrong. You yourself have shown no grasp on any portions of scripture and have basically responded only with the example of shepherd and sheep. You fail to grasp that the pastor is also a sheep. But we are willing to have you respond to passages of scripture you have been given, and actually take the scriptures and expound on them to prove your point. We will be waiting.

In the meantime, I invite you to take your Bible and show us unenlightened masses that have very little hold on the Bible that the Book of Acts is merely a transition book. Don't do it on this thread about deacons and voting - start a new thread for a new topic.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I wish to apologize for the waste of time this has caused. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed you should. It has been a monumental waste of time trying to share Scripture with you when all you want to do is ignore God's Word in favor of the contemporary business mindset that has pervaded the church and jettisoned Biblical teaching. You not just ignore Acts, but other passages in the NT. Your initial post was dishonest, acting like you want to learn, but then reject Scriptural teaching for secular tradition. I've been patient, but the Bible is clear that people will reject God's Word and will only accept what itching ears want to hear. I'll leave you to your scratching.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chriaskc:
I was simply trying to relate to you all, because everyone of you kept pointing me back to Acts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As for me, I will keep pointing you to the book of Acts; I don't accept your transitional idea. It's quite a nice way to dismiss the authority of 28 chapters of the Bible, though.

 

BTW, chriaskc, are you trying to say that it was OK for them then to vote on issues, but it is not OK now? Are you saying that pastors today are more authoritative than the apostles were then??