Waking Up In Heaven

[Berean]

I am reading this book and I really don't know why, really. Someone in my church recommended to a friend and he bought a copy and it is the one I am reading. In short the book alleges that a teacher/housewife dies and goes to Heaven and has an encounter with God and a conversation ensues in which God tells her to bring the message back to earth, similar as to what God did to John Denver in "O God" except this time He didn't come to Earth. I would be dishonest if I said I am not skeptical for the following reasons. The following is some of the reasons for my skepticism;
I. It is appointed unto man/woman once to die and after that the judgement.
You may be clinically dead but once the spirit leaves the body "U-Dead" except Lazarus I guess he died twice.
II. Lost people do not go to heaven.
III. I don't believe in out of the body experiences.
These are only opinions, I would like to hear yours.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am reading this book and I really don't know why, really. Someone in my church recommended to a friend and he bought a copy and it is the one I am reading. In short the book alleges that a teacher/housewife dies and goes to Heaven and has an encounter with God and a conversation ensues in which God tells her to bring the message back to earth, similar as to what God did to John Denver in "O God" except this time He didn't come to Earth. I would be dishonest if I said I am not skeptical for the following reasons. The following is some of the reasons for my skepticism;
I. It is appointed unto man/woman once to die and after that the judgement.
You may be clinically dead but once the spirit leaves the body "U-Dead" except Lazarus I guess he died twice.
II. Lost people do not go to heaven.
III. I don't believe in out of the body experiences.
These are only opinions, I would like to hear yours.

All such claims of outer body experiences should be rejected as you have stated.These happen in the mind of the person...not in reality.:thumbsup:

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Did not God reveal his will to the prophets through dreams and visions?

Why are we so quick to think God will not choose to do the same thing?

And as it is appointed unto man once to die? well there were multiple people in the bible that died more than once.

 

[Yeshua1]

All such claims of outer body experiences should be rejected as you have stated.These happen in the mind of the person...not in reality.:thumbsup:

what is interesting to me is that some athiests claimed to have them, and they were told God loves and saves them, as also those in other religions had them...

I think some indeed have them, but they meet the Angel of Light, NOT the Lord...

And paul saw heaven, but God forbade him to talk on it, Lazarus did not 'spill the beans", so why would God have some today give us "my time with jesus, my day in heaven etc?"

was/isn't the bible itself all that we need to know on afterlife/heaven?

 

[OldRegular]

Did not God reveal his will to the prophets through dreams and visions?

Why are we so quick to think God will not choose to do the same thing?

The final revelation from God came through Jesus Christ [Hebrews 1:1f].

And as it is appointed unto man once to die? well there were multiple people in the bible that died more than once.

Scripture please!

 

[ShagNappy]

If someone said they had an experience such as this and it changed them and it led them to get saved I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. God speaks as God speaks. But when people start saying God gave them a message to bring back and blah blah blah, it never filters out correctly through the word, so my reaction is to roll my eyes and move along.

If someone brought a message that squared with the Word I would give it a chance, but it never works out that way. God's Word doesn't change. Never did, never will.

 

[Jerome]

Here's a Puritan's trip found at the "Monergism" site:

http://new.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Puritans/Misc-Puritans/Anne-Dutton/

vol 3, p. 60 ff

"Another time I was under Illness of Body, and other trials. . . .I was brought, in a Moment, into the Bosom of GOD. . . .I saw myself wrap'd round with the Righteousness of GOD; and splendidly glorious, in the Eyes of flaming Purity, as I stood in this shining Dress! And from the transcendent Heights of this Glory-sun, I look'd down upon the perfect Righteousness of Adam in Innocence, and of the holy Angels in Heaven, and saw no Glory in these, in comparison with the super excelling Glory of Christ's Righteousness. . . .I beheld the Mercy of Jehovah, as a boundless Ocean, and myself in the midst of it; so that nothing could come at me but what came thro' a Sea of Mercy. No Afflictions, Temptations, or Trials, of what Kind soever, could touch me, but must come thro' this infinite everlasting Mercy, and by it be turn'd into Mercies to Me. I was indeed, cast into Mercy's Ocean, and delightfully div'd into its infinite Depths. And upon every new Discovery, I cry'd out, with the Apostle, Rom. xi.33. Oh the Depths! And in a Word. By this Hour's Communion with GOD, I thought I knew something what Heaven would be.: In the Morning, I said, with Jacob, This is none other but the House of God, and this is the Gate of Heaven, Gen. xxviii.17."

 

[Zenas]

Does scripture really prelude these near death or out of body experiences? I don't think Hebrews 9:27 applies because these people aren't dead, at least to the extent that they are laid to rest. Hebrews 9:27 does preclude the idea of reincarnation. And if scripture doesn't preclude near death experiences, then why should we be skeptical?

 

[Yeshua1]

Does scripture really prelude these near death or out of body experiences? I don't think Hebrews 9:27 applies because these people aren't dead, at least to the extent that they are laid to rest. Hebrews 9:27 does preclude the idea of reincarnation. And if scripture doesn't preclude near death experiences, then why should we be skeptical?

maybe because God ceased giving additional revelation afetr John died, and canon closed, and if Paul was not allowed to speak, why would God allow any others to do such?

Jesus is FINAL word of God to us, scriptures are ALL we get and need to know on heaven!

And many of these stories contridict the bible, so how can God be in that?

Some even give non Christians hope for heaven, as 'Jesus" yells tjhem that he accepts and loves evenAthiests and other faiths!

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Suspicious

I have to agree with you on this, Berean. I'm rather skeptical about 'death' experiences.

I think it quite possible to be close to dead and fool medical people and machines, then come back from the 'almost' dead. But normally, death is a permanent change of station. At this point, we do not have the medical ability to reliably determine in every case the difference between 'near death' and 'actual death' until the person in question revives.

But when people start saying God gave them a message to bring back and blah blah blah, it never filters out correctly through the word, so my reaction is to roll my eyes and move along.

Well put.

There are a few exceptions, rather few: As you mentioned, Lazarus (after three days in a mausoleum, I'd bet he was really dead for a while). This Lazarus was the brother of Mary and Martha, in John 11, not the beggar associated with the rich man.

Eutychus, brought back by Paul in Acts 20.
Dorcas, also brought back by Paul; Acts 9.
The son of the hospitable woman by Elijah in 1 Kings 17.
The dead man who was thrown into Elisha's tomb in 2 Kings 13.

And Jesus revived the synagogue leader's little girl in Mark 5.

I think I'm missing one or two; but there are records.
But out of all the people to live on Earth, that's rather few.

 

[Zenas]

maybe because God ceased giving additional revelation afetr John died, and canon closed, and if Paul was not allowed to speak, why would God allow any others to do such?

I agree, the canon is closed and there is no more public revelation. Private revelation, however, where God chooses to speak to an individual for the instruction of only that individual still exists. As far as Paul not being allowed to speak, (1) he was in Paradise (third Heaven) which the near death folks are not, and (2) whatever he heard he was prevented from speaking about because the words he heard were "inexpressible."

Jesus is FINAL word of God to us, scriptures are ALL we get and need to know on heaven!

Maybe it's all we need to know but maybe God chooses certain individuals, for reasons known only to God, to whom He discloses more. I will repeat what I said earlier, nothing in scripture precludes this.

And many of these stories contridict the bible, so how can God be in that?

Uh, maybe you could give us an example of one that contradicts the Bible?

Some even give non Christians hope for heaven, as 'Jesus" yells tjhem that he accepts and loves evenAthiests and other faiths!

Maybe you could give us an example of this as well?

This I firmly believe, that there is a lot going on over on the other side that we have no idea about, and no one would have any motive to get a glimpse of that world and then lie to us about it.

 

[convicted1]

The final revelation from God came through Jesus Christ [Hebrews 1:1f].


Scripture please!

In 1 Kings, Elijah raised the widow's son back to life. Jesus touched the bier(coffin) of a widow's only son, and he came back to life. Then there's Lazarus in John 11. That's three accounts right there.

 

[Yeshua1]

In 1 Kings, Elijah raised the widow's son back to life. Jesus touched the bier(coffin) of a widow's only son, and he came back to life. Then there's Lazarus in John 11. That's three accounts right there.

All of them were really dead, but Giod forbade ANY of them to record down what they saw and heard!

maybe the Bible is all that we need to know, eh?

 

[Yeshua1]

wish that I had recorded their names down, but local chrsitian Apologist had on a dallas minister, who after researcing after date experiences, concluded the lord saves those who show and walk in "love of christ", regradless if believers in jesus, as they live out life in his love, and also interviews an Athiest, who aftrdeath experience was that he mert jesus, and was told that God will save all people...

And there are multiple stories told and written that have people claiming to see and hearthings that were NOT recorded down in bible to us to know!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

And as it is appointed unto man once to die? well there were multiple people in the bible that died more than once.

The Greek apokeimai is translated "appointed" in Hebrews 9:27 and means "laid aside, laid away, reserved." In other words, man has only one death awaiting him at the end of life. That is the normal course of things, unless, as in the cases you mention, God intervenes. God can do anything He wants. If He wanted Lazarus to die twice -- and obviously He did -- He can appoint a second death by resurrecting him after the first. It should be no surprise that God can change what He has commanded, when it suits His purpose.