WAR, What Is It Good For?

[Andy T.]

I've had people say to my face (twice) that you can't be a Christian and a Democrat.

Yet, you imply the same towards Republicans.

I do believe that the Republican party uses the abortion issue to get evangelical votes (and that really makes me mad).

Does it make you mad, because you really think evangelicals should be voting Democrat? So for you it's not really that the church is too political, it's just not the right politics in your view - i.e., the liberal kind.

I do believe that the association with the Republican party has hurt the church greatly

What about the mainline and black churches - has their association with the Democratic Party hurt them too? Or is that ok, since they are aligned with God's Party in your view?

 

[JustChristian]

Yet, you imply the same towards Republicans.


Does it make you mad, because you really think evangelicals should be voting Democrat? So for you it's not really that the church is too political, it's just not the right politics in your view - i.e., the liberal kind.

What about the mainline and black churches - has their association with the Democratic Party hurt them too? Or is that ok, since they are aligned with God's Party in your view?

I've never, never said or implied that republicans cannot be Christians. If you can find me saying that here please post it. I've said that the church has suffered because of it's close alliance with one political party. I believe that's true. I wouldn't even consider myself a liberal at this point in my life. I've become outright conservative on some topics like affirmative action and the disparate amount of money spent on breast cancer research to the detriment of women because they think it's their major health issue. Other cancers like lung and colorectal are much deadlier and heart disease is the worst killer for women. No prostate cancer research that I can see.

Black churches have historically been more politicized than white churches. I think it's because the church was their primary meeting place in the communmity. No. I'd like to see all association of the church with political parties cease. Once again, not preaching on moral issues. Just recommending political candidates or parties.

 

[thegospelgeek]

As a pastor I have always tried to present the canidates and there stance on the issues. Would you find this acceptable?

 

[preachinjesus]

wow, this thread has gotten off course...

anyhoo, I am staunchly against war. There is no basis for reprisals under the new covenant. If anything Jesus' teaching shows us that war is certainly not redeemed activity.

I've done plenty of work in just war theory and pacificism over the past seven years and have not seen a biblically justifiable answer for the point above. I'm interested to hear how those who support just war or even a crusade position justify their belief in light of the new covenant relationship created by the cross of Calvary.

Not being snarky, just curious.

 

[Palatka51]

wow, this thread has gotten off course...

anyhoo, I am staunchly against war. There is no basis for reprisals under the new covenant. If anything Jesus' teaching shows us that war is certainly not redeemed activity.

I've done plenty of work in just war theory and pacificism over the past seven years and have not seen a biblically justifiable answer for the point above. I'm interested to hear how those who support just war or even a crusade position justify their belief in light of the new covenant relationship created by the cross of Calvary.

Not being snarky, just curious.

The Apostle Paul told us to obey the powers that be. God has granted that right to governments.

 

[preachinjesus]

The Apostle Paul told us to obey the powers that be. God has granted that right to governments.

Does obey=participate/condone?

Also, what precise biblical argument, in light of the teachings of Jesus Christ, can be used to further bolster this position?

 

[Palatka51]

Does obey=participate/condone?

Participate when compelled by draft, yes. Condone an unjust war, no.

Also, what precise biblical argument, in light of the teachings of Jesus Christ, can be used to further bolster this position?

Jesus' teachings are for the individual not governments. He separated His teachings when He said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's."

 

[Alcott]

Q: When is War Moral or Immoral?

A: When we are attacked first and many innocent civilians are killed.

What would a respondant be saying if he did answer this poll? The question should have been "When is war moral?" or "When is war immoral?"

 

[Palatka51]

Q: When is War Moral or Immoral?

A: When we are attacked first and many innocent civilians are killed.

What would a respondant be saying if he did answer this poll? The question should have been "When is war moral?" or "When is war immoral?"

You are correct. I see the flaw, however one can still state that it is moral for a nation to go to war when it is attacked first and many innocent civilians are killed, for the reason they voted that choice.

 

[BigBossman]

You are too young to have gotten the reference. :thumbs:

Ask your mom or dad or some other boomer! Or click the link.

I know you were making a reference to Edwin Starr's hit from 1970.

I was just curious to know if that is what you thought war was good for?

 

[Palatka51]

Q: When is War Moral or Immoral?

A: When we are attacked first and many innocent civilians are killed.

What would a respondant be saying if he did answer this poll? The question should have been "When is war moral?" or "When is war immoral?"

This poll has yielded great results. However Alcott is right, it is flawed. I request that the Moderators close it. If anyone else wishes to build another poll along the same lines please do so.

I would like to thank all those who have participated in this thread.

Mel

 

[JustChristian]

Participate when compelled by draft, yes. Condone an unjust war, no.


Jesus' teachings are for the individual not governments. He separated His teachings when He said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's."

That's fine. Individual Christians should not support war unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

[JustChristian]

Blackbird: I love Border Collies and Austrailian Shepherds

I've moved forward in the sense that I love all dogs unless they snarl at me. I walked towards a golden in the Munich airport one time to pat him on the head and looked back to see a policeman. I realized he was a drug dog and decided to let him do his job without interruption. As I've gotten older I've become more sensitive to the beauty of all of God's creation. (As a young man I mainly focused on the beauty of female Homo Sapiens.) I know this one is off target but I couldn't help it.

 

[Marcia]

I never thought that I would see Bush bashing here........


Oh, by the way, Jesus said.........
Matthew 10:34
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”

This was not about war, though.

 

[Jim1999]

I just remembered what came out of a war that was good. It is called World Vision,,the children orphans mission started by Bob Pierce in Korea.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[JustChristian]

I never thought that I would see Bush bashing here........


Oh, by the way, Jesus said.........
Matthew 10:34
“Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.”

Jesus was not saying here that He came to earth to start a war. You need to read on in this chapter to get the context.

Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is talking about following Jesus will create divisions even within your own family.

 

[Creyn]

I absolutely agree with you. It's just that this board is so overwhelmingly conservative/Republican that it's hard not to react when someone says you have the blood of millions of abortions on your hands just because you didn't vote for

You know what? No one EVER SAID THAT. What I HAVE SEEN written, time and time again, is that you SHOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR A CHAMPION OF ABORTION. And you SHOULDN'T HAVE!

If you're against abortion, you should not have helped to elect a man that made it 50 percent of his life's work to make them as easy as possible to get.

If you ARE FOR abortion, then GET LOST! That's not the official position of this board, but it is just one of WAY TOO MANY positions that you come down on the wrong side of.

I will PRAY for you. I will pray that you have a change of heart about the importance of being pro-life. I will pray that you give up crazy conspiracy theories. And I will MOST OF ALL pray that these views you take, don't turn someone away from God who may just begin to think it might be time to give church a try again, before they run into YOU.

Abortion is IN NO WAY comparable to people killed on a battlefield. Not enemy combatants with the ability to shoot back, or civilian casualties who those cowardly, evil enemy combatants hide behind. Is the death of those civilians tragic? Absolutely. Is it comparable to the sanctioned slaughter of MILLIONS of defenseless unborn babies? Not in a million freaking years and for you to say so shows a true sickness inside you.

Are you Pro CHOICE?!! Then stop speaking like it!

 

[blackbird]

This poll has yielded great results. However Alcott is right, it is flawed. I request that the Moderators close it. (Moderators bolding)If anyone else wishes to build another poll along the same lines please do so.

I would like to thank all those who have participated in this thread.

Mel

Have a good day, Palatka!!

Blackbird
Moderator