Yes, as I think that it was Calvin that linked this passage to a what if scenario that was obviously not really even able to happen! The author is pointing out how foolish it would be if it was possible to actually lose eternal life!
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Warning: anyone who is a habitual sinner is NOT in a saved state
- Thread starter Samuels
- Start date
If one can lose their salvation, then born of God would be a lie. The problem with the OP is the author does not have any understanding of what it means to be born of God. Before one begins to preach how one can lose their salvation, they must first preach how one becomes born again. If they can do this, I would wager the losing salvation part would disappear from their preaching.
So my answer to the OP is, tell us first how a person becomes born of God according to the scriptures. Then we will look at all those verses you posted in light of your findings on born of God.
So my answer to the OP is, tell us first how a person becomes born of God according to the scriptures. Then we will look at all those verses you posted in light of your findings on born of God.
God saves us eternally, as He translate us from the Kingdom of satan to that of Jesus, seal us by the Holy Spirit of promise, has Jesus intercede for us, so if one could be lost again, would have to be more powerful than the trinity themselves!
The OP author must first explain born of God and present it from the scriptures. Then he may have a voice on "habitual sin" as it relates to the born of God.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'll give it a shot, if only to present what I see:
" He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." ( John 1:10-13 )
First, I see what a person cannot be born again by...
Blood ( inheritance ).
The will of the flesh ( their own will ).
The will of man ( other people's will ).
What does it take to be born again?
Belief?
No, that is evidence, not the determiner.
Why?
Because it is given to someone to believe, in the behalf of Christ ( Philippians 1:29 )
It is a work of God to believe on Christ ( John 6:29 )
One has to be ordained to eternal life, to believe ( Acts 13:48 )
One has to be a sheep, in order to believe ( John 10:26 )
One has to be given to Christ by His Father, in order to come to Him in belief ( John 6:37-40, John 6:64-65 ) and be given eternal life ( John 17:2 ).
One must be foreknown and have all the rest performed for them by God ( Romans 8:28-30 ).
One must be chosen to salvation through two things...sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ), not because of them.
" For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." ( Titus 3:3-7 )
Is belief a work of righteousness?
" For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:2-5 )
According to this,
Yes.
So, according to Titus 3, it was not by works of righteousness that the believer has done, but according to God's mercy He saved them.
How?
By the "washing" of regeneration ( being born again ) and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
One is born again by God's purpose and mercy.
That is what I see.
Samuels,
Please tell us what you see.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. Anyone who is not considered sinless in God's sight does not know God (John 17:3; 1 John 3:4; 1 John 3:6; Hebrews 10:17; Romans 4:15; Romans 6:14; Galatians 5:18).
And Samuels your agreement is not required of me.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
37818
Well-Known Member
It is so describe. Like the argument God gave to Isaiah, ". . . Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.. . ." -- Isaiah 1:18. God tells Jeremiah about the New Covenant which He will keep (Jeremiah 31:31-34), with the promise ". . . for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. . . ." -- Jeremiah 31:34. God gives and keeps the standing which He gives us. So we are counted as righteous. It is not our merit, but God's gift.
John 10:26-28. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you, My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me, and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall anyone pluck them out of My hand. My father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all...."
Christ's sheep have been given to Him by the Father; He has laid down His life for them (v.11) and they will never perish. However, we should note that Christ's sheep are a special breed; they are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice, and they follow Him. So what are we to make of someone who claims to be one of the Lord's flock but does not seek to obey His commands as written in the Bible and is not following Him? We have to conclude that he is not one of the flock, and that at the end of time he will hear the Shepherd say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness!" Note this; He says, "I never knew you;" not "I knew you once and then forgot you."
The idea that someone can be in Christ, then out again, and then, perhaps, back in, is ridiculous. But so is the idea that one can be born of the Holy Spirit and yet live like the devil.
Christ's sheep have been given to Him by the Father; He has laid down His life for them (v.11) and they will never perish. However, we should note that Christ's sheep are a special breed; they are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice, and they follow Him. So what are we to make of someone who claims to be one of the Lord's flock but does not seek to obey His commands as written in the Bible and is not following Him? We have to conclude that he is not one of the flock, and that at the end of time he will hear the Shepherd say, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practise lawlessness!" Note this; He says, "I never knew you;" not "I knew you once and then forgot you."
The idea that someone can be in Christ, then out again, and then, perhaps, back in, is ridiculous. But so is the idea that one can be born of the Holy Spirit and yet live like the devil.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I also see, in 1 Corinthians, that believers can be real messes, externally, until grown spiritually.
The man who had his father's wife is but one example, in my opinion.
However, that still does not mean that they will not follow Him.
They do, and they always will, even through chastisement.
I speak from experience...I tried to live like the devil, and the Spirit wouldn't let me.
Neither would the Lord ( Hebrews 12:1-11, Revelation 3:19 ).
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
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Its the attitude of the person and His reaction towards His sinning, for David sinned grossly before the Lord, and tried to hide it, but he was still experiencing guilt and anguish for his sins, will the mere professor would sin and forget it!I agree.
I also see, in 1 Corinthians, that believers can be real messes, externally, until grown spiritually.
The man who had his father's wife is but one example, in my opinion.
However, that still does not mean that they will not follow Him.
They do, and they always will, even through chastisement.
I speak from experience...I tried to live like the devil, and the Spirit wouldn't let me.
Neither would the Lord ( Hebrews 12:1-11, Revelation 3:19 ).
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Thank goodness. Missouri is a saved state. The next time some ask me how I know I'm saved I know what to say.
Yes, I checked a map and Texas falls in the "Bible Belt", making it a saved state.
Because it was not human will that brought be salvation, (John 6:65)
Because it was God who created a new creation and implanted it me,
and (James 1:8, Ephesians 2:10)
Because Christ is both the author and the completer of the redeemed, (John 10:28, John 6:39)
Then, what business have I to question who redeemed me, keeps me, sustains me, and is with me throughout both the earthly journey and that eternal estate to even suggest that my old human will can be of such authority as to wrestle from the power of God the salvation that He bestowed?
It was not "my will" to be redeemed, not "my will" to not sin, and certainly not "my will" that ever was brought to into agreement with God. God did not remake "my will" but implanted a "NEW nature" (which includes a Godly will) that absolutely NOTHING of this world, this flesh, or the old nature (will included) enter that eternity He has prepared.
Therefore,
Sin, ALL sin, past, present, future has been already covered by the shed blood of Christ. There is NO condemnation, for all believers are "in Christ."
On a side note:
There are those who will limit the blood of the Savior in some manner, by stating that it was sufficient for all but effective only on some, or some other statement of limitation.
Here is the remarkable statement by John. ALL unbeliever's sin has also been dealt with by Christ.
There is a limit in the ability to believe, not the ability of the blood.
There was no limit on the blood ( shown by John) nor the equipment used in ( shown by Paul) to the atonement of Christ. The blood was shed once for ALL.
However, the ALL cannot claim by their own will any belief. Belief (faith) is a gift of God (Ephesians 2, Romans 3, Titus 2)
Because it was God who created a new creation and implanted it me,
and (James 1:8, Ephesians 2:10)
Because Christ is both the author and the completer of the redeemed, (John 10:28, John 6:39)
Then, what business have I to question who redeemed me, keeps me, sustains me, and is with me throughout both the earthly journey and that eternal estate to even suggest that my old human will can be of such authority as to wrestle from the power of God the salvation that He bestowed?
It was not "my will" to be redeemed, not "my will" to not sin, and certainly not "my will" that ever was brought to into agreement with God. God did not remake "my will" but implanted a "NEW nature" (which includes a Godly will) that absolutely NOTHING of this world, this flesh, or the old nature (will included) enter that eternity He has prepared.
Therefore,
Sin, ALL sin, past, present, future has been already covered by the shed blood of Christ. There is NO condemnation, for all believers are "in Christ."
On a side note:
There are those who will limit the blood of the Savior in some manner, by stating that it was sufficient for all but effective only on some, or some other statement of limitation.
Here is the remarkable statement by John. ALL unbeliever's sin has also been dealt with by Christ.
1 John 2:2 "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
There is a limit in the ability to believe, not the ability of the blood.
John6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, (by the determination of God, not man) and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."
There was no limit on the blood ( shown by John) nor the equipment used in ( shown by Paul) to the atonement of Christ. The blood was shed once for ALL.
However, the ALL cannot claim by their own will any belief. Belief (faith) is a gift of God (Ephesians 2, Romans 3, Titus 2)
I am a one point Calvinist. I believe the scriptures declare people are given a decision to make and the free will to make it, believe or not believe. But once the choice is made and a call is made to Jesus, a rebirth takes place by the will and power of God, God sealing that person eternally, for one could not stop believing in that which they have a personal knowledge of is an absolute truth (i.e. regeneration, Christ in you).
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
If God responds to something man does in granting salvation, it is works based salvation.
If man responds to what God has done, it is grace salvation.
Does God respond to anything man does?
IF He decides that He wants to do that!