WARNINGS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH (HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39)

[loDebar]

Christians are not free to believe anyway but are obligated to God through Scripture. The lost are free to believe truth or error., just not free to escape the consequence of their belief

 

[Ziggy]

Wonder why I have seen these same arguments (including the sabbath comment) in SDA literature?

 

[loDebar]

Wonder why I have seen these same arguments (including the sabbath comment) in SDA literature?

They try to keep the Law when it was not directed art them. They try to be a Hebrew between Moses and Abraham.
It is from ignorance of the early leaders only having the KJV .

 

[1689Dave]

HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-27 ARE WARNINGS TO BELIEVERS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH

What I find amusing (well sad really) are those that are trying to argue that HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-38 are not direct warnings to believers not to depart the faith to return back to a life of known unrepentant sin despite these scriptures directly saying so.

Also why not answer and respond to the posts directly that have been provided earlier that show verse by verse showing CONTEXT that these scriptures are references to believers departing the faith and returning to a life of known unrepentant sin? Wheather they be JEWS or non JEWS is irrelavant because of two important facts. The points being made were that the WARNING CONTEXT of these scriptures were; 1. TO BELIEVERS and 2. THAT DEPARTED THE FAITH TO RETURN TO KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

1. THESE SCRIPTURES REFER TO BELIEVERS THAT HAD A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH

Let's look at the scriptures...

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Who are we talking about here; BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS? The question your considering is; were these BELIEVERS and Born again christians. These scriptures directly say word for word that the topic of dscussion here are those who were BELIEVERS as the scriptures say...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5

So reviewing the CONTEXT of these scriptures we don't really need to say much they speak for themselves. Yep, HEBREWS 6:4-8 very clearly show here that we are talking about BELIEVERS having fallen away from the HEAVENLY gift back into a life of sin crucifying the son of God afresh.

Let's also look at HEBREWS 10:26-27

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For IF WE (BELIEVERS) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Yep Paul includes himself in this WARNING. The subject matter is...

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27

Ok point 1 is established. Do you agree that these scriptures are in reference and WARNINGS to BELIEVERS and that these scripture are speaking about BELIEVERS that have a knowledge of the truth of the Gospel of JESUS Christ who return back to a life of sin?

Part 2 will follow...

Judas was one such not actually saved but experienced the powers of the world to come. Also those whom Christ will tell to depart, that he never knew them, on the last day. They even worked miracles in his name as many do today.

 

[loDebar]

oh my goodness

, Hebrews 10 is speaking about those who hear truth , yet reject it. Not losing salvation
Reference the parable of the sower, They receive the Gospel, Truth, yet reject it

 

[robycop3]

The key phrase is HAVING PARTAKEN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. In the NT, we never see any unbeliever receiving the Holy Spirit. This casts serious doubts upon the OSAS doctrine.

 

[loDebar]

The key phrase is HAVING PARTAKEN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. In the NT, we never see any unbeliever receiving the Holy Spirit. This casts serious doubts upon the OSAS doctrine.

no, quite the opposite, the Writer was showing those who had done all this in Heb 6 4-6 could not fall away because they do not have the power Crucify God again for individual sin . There was no need to discuss salvation again but to speak about maturity of the believer ongoing

 

[kyredneck]

HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-27 ARE WARNINGS TO BELIEVERS NOT TO DEPART THE FAITH

Go through the entire book, these 'falling away' are described as brethren, partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, received the knowledge of the truth, sanctified by the blood of the covenant, referred to as 'His people'. They entered not into His rest because of unbelief. Even Moses and Aaron were refused entrance into His rest because of their unbelief.

Are Moses and Aaron in hell?

Does Christ's atonement cover the sin of unbelief?

Are there other sins that His atonement doesn't cover?

 

[37818]

Giving @3rdAngel the benefit of the doubt, and since he adamantly denies that God keeps those whom He has saved, he believes the saved can be lost and needs to heed what he so understands to be a warning against falling away from God's truth. And this being the case, it would be better served,I think, if he exspounded on the Apostle Peter's advice as found in 2 Peter 1:4-11.

 

[37818]

Are there other sins that His atonement doesn't cover?

Matthew 12:32: Revelation 20:15.

 

[1689Dave]

The key phrase is HAVING PARTAKEN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. In the NT, we never see any unbeliever receiving the Holy Spirit. This casts serious doubts upon the OSAS doctrine.

Ghandi partook of the Holy Spirit following the Sermon on the Mount. The words are Spirit and life. Yet he remained a pagan.

 

[loDebar]

Ghandi partook of the Holy Spirit following the Sermon on the Mount. The words are Spirit and life. Yet he remained a pagan.

what?

 

[1689Dave]

what?

Gandhi experienced the Holy Spirit through Christ's words. But not the New Birth.

 

[3rdAngel]

no, The Holy Spirit shows the unsaved Jesus as the Savior, He cannot show you more until you believe. He then can lead you to maturity.

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They hear His voice and follow him because they love him and are loved by him. You have only been provided Gods' Word. In response you provide your own words which are not God's Word but your words so your argument is with God not me. Many are called through the word but few will hear it and few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

no, Christians answer to God every DAY

Then we must hear His Voice (the Word) today. Tommorrow may be too late. God's Sheep Hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear him do not know him *JOHN 10:26-27.

 

[3rdAngel]

Christians are not free to believe anyway but are obligated to God through Scripture. The lost are free to believe truth or error., just not free to escape the consequence of their belief

Then why deny the scriptures provided in the OP? They are God's Words not mine and you disagree with them.

 

[3rdAngel]

Wonder why I have seen these same arguments (including the sabbath comment) in SDA literature?

Please show me anything that I have written that is from SDA literature. I have only provided God's Word. What is it from the scriptures that have been provided in this thread that you disagree with?

 

[3rdAngel]

Judas was one such not actually saved but experienced the powers of the world to come. Also those whom Christ will tell to depart, that he never knew them, on the last day. They even worked miracles in his name as many do today.

Judas believed and followed JESUS for a time but then fell away from the truth to betray God. This example only supports the OP. Unbelievers do not receive the holy Spirit as the Spirit works through God's Word and is Holy *ACTS 2:38. Receiving God's Spirit is conditional on believing and following God's Word. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we GRIEVE and can QUENCH God's Spirit so it will depart from us *EPHESIANS 4:30; 1 THESSALONIANS 5:19

 

[3rdAngel]

oh my goodness, Hebrews 10 is speaking about those who hear truth , yet reject it. Not losing salvation Reference the parable of the sower, They receive the Gospel, Truth, yet reject it

Well that is not true. These are your words not God's. Then we have God's Word (not yours) that says...

HEBREWS 10:26-38
[26], For IF WE (BELIEVERS) sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (see HEBREWS 6:4-8)
[30], For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
[33], Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
[34], For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
[35], Cast not away therefore your confidence (speaking to believers), which hath great recompence of reward.
[36], For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
[38], Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

..............

Again key points to consider in HEBREWS 10:28-28 (from HEBREWS 10:26-27)

1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27

4. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive a greater punishment for returning to a life of known unrepentant sin because we have receved a knowledge of the truth and turned away from it; HEBREWS 10:29

5. WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an UNHOLY thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29

6. WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35

7. WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:36
8. WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

As you can see here all of the above is Gods Word not mine and the scripture application and context is to believers drawing back to something that is not the Gospel of Christ. The application here is universal. If we draw back to anything that is not the gospel of Christ and continue to sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of judgment.

Sorry my friend God's Word disagrees with you. What is it in the scriptures provided here that you disagree with? This is only sent in love and as a help to you. I hope you can receive these scriptures in the Spirit it was given (love).

Ignoring God's Word does not make it dissappear.

 

[loDebar]

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They hear His voice and follow him because they love him and are loved by him. You have only been provided Gods' Word. In response you provide your own words which are not God's Word but your words so your argument is with God not me. Many are called through the word but few will hear it and few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.

why did you quote John the Baptist?
Are you taking verses way out of context mixing then to your satisfaction?
Are you applying scripture to yourself being as the speaker?

How dangerous and ignorant.