Was Adam a Calvinist?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BB: Tree of life has nothing to do with ruling the earth but eternal life.

HP: Ah! A bit of sanity amongths the twisted tales of ensnarling dreams. So much JJ for keeping things ‘simple.’
Now a word for the wise JJ. If you don’t want to get nipped in the tail, don’t tale it like you did. :thumbs:

This is what gets me. What earthly or heavenly good did a tree have in the midst of the Garden that God told our first parents they were free to eat of, yet some say they couldn’t or didn’t, as witnessed personally by some on this thread. My question to them is, when could have they ate of the fruit of it? If they could not before the fall, and they sure could not after the fall, when in the world could they have, and for what purpose could it have possibly served?

 

[J. Jump]

So, J Jump;
You are say that women has been our downfall all the time and not Adam. I thought it said "as in Adam all die"?

Now don't go putting words in my mouth again Brother Bob. We all die through Adam according to Romans, because the sin nature is from the seed of man.

But Adam had to partake of the fruit, because he could not rule and reign as He was supposed to, because he couldn't rule and reign as an incomplete being.

I believe it is in Romans that says Adam was not deceived, but it was Eve that was deceived and the transgression belongs to her. But Adam partook of that transgression so as to provide a Redeemer for her.

I have some great resource material on this if you are interested in studying the matter out.

My question to them is, when could have they ate of the fruit of it?

Had they passed the test of temptation they would have proven themselves worthy of the position for which they were appointed and they would have been allowed to eat of the tree of life. But since they didn't pass they test they couldn't eat.

Christ had to face the same test while He was on earth. He passed the direct temptation of Satan and proved Himself worthy of ruling and reigning. He was found worthy to redeem that which Adam had lost and part of that redemption was the position of ruler.

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans, chapter 5
14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What you going to do with this Scripture JJ? peace:thumbs:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Let’s see. Didn’t God know that Adam and Eve would sin, and due to the fact that their sins were literally paid for on the cross, that he was actually saved all the time, even from the foundations of the world? How could he be right with God and then not be? Are there any on this thread that don’t believe in millisecond Christianity, right with God one second and lost the next?

 

[Jim1999]

Adam was actually a naturalist. Wasn't he a nudist before the leaf provision? :laugh:

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Le Buick: They obviously were not eternally secure, they were eternal in the sense that there was no death and they had no appointed time to die.

HP: How about stating it in this fashion? They were absolutely eternally secure “IF” they remained obedient.

 

[Scarlett O.]

But Adam had to partake of the fruit....

....Adam partook of that transgression so as to provide a Redeemer for her.

Well, my mind is now officially blown.

Adam had to sin?

And just how did Adam "redeem" Eve? I've gotta hear this one.

I'll listen to whatever you have to say out of curiousity, but I am not going to add anymore to the discussion except to say that I stand by what I said earlier.

I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

El Guero: NOPE Adam DID NOT partake of the tree of life

HP: Says who?

 

[LeBuick]

My question to them is, when could have they ate of the fruit of it? If they could not before the fall, and they sure could not after the fall, when in the world could they have, and for what purpose could it have possibly served?

We all must take and eat of the fruit from this tree in order to have eternal life. The question really is how can Adam get past the Cherubims and the flaming sword? Our delimma is how do we find the garden of eden then get past the Cherubims and the flaming sword?

We know from Revalations that the tree of life resides in paradise. If John saw the tree in Rev 22:2 then I am to believe Eden is also paradise because that is the last place the tree was seen. This makes Eden also the place with no tears, wants etc...

Not watch closely what GOD does, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Notice the angel is there not to guard the garden, he is there to "keep the way."

Now Jesus later says, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Jesus is the WAY TRUTH and the LIFE no man cometh unto the Father (or shall we say where the father is or paradise), but by me.

As I stated before, Adam like the rest of us must take and eat from the tree of life if he is to be saved.

Now Acts 4:12 teaches, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

I am convinced my Brother, Adam must accept Jesus as his lord and personal savior if he is to have eternal life.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

JJ:Adam partook of that transgression so as to provide a Redeemer for her.

HP: Let’s see. If this was true it would have been sin for Adam not to have sinned, right? Would it not have been a sin of omission for him to fail to sin in order for her to be redeemed? How wonderful a picture you paint of heinous willful rebellion against God.

 

[LeBuick]

Adam was actually a naturalist. Wasn't he a nudist before the leaf provision? :laugh:

Cheers,

Jim

I believe so, I love Gen 2:25, "And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

Not only did they walk naked but they had no shame! Now how is that for modest dress?

 

[LeBuick]

HP: How about stating it in this fashion? They were absolutely eternally secure “IF” they remained obedient.

Because to secure something means to protect it from being lost. If it had of been secure he would not have lost it. He did loose it and had a way to loose it so it was not secure. That is why I don't say it that way.

 

[J. Jump]

And just how did Adam "redeem" Eve?

I never said that Adam redeemed Eve. I said "to provide a Redeemer for her."

Adam had nothing to do with Eve's redemption other than partaking sin so that the Redeemer could come through her. That's what the Bible says on the matter.

Romans, chapter 5
14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Brother Bob what would you like me to say here? I believe that verse and it proves what I have been saying that Adam is a type of Christ. And it also shows what I said in that we through Adam taste death.

Not sure what you are trying to get at, but this verse does nothing but show what I have been talking about to be true.

I'll let you have the last word.

How about just letting the Bible have the last word. That should suffice eh?

 

[Jarthur001]

well...This has been a very strange tread.

1)I find myself agreeing with 2 poster, that I hardly ever agree with when it comes to Calvinism

2)I have seen 3 very bizarre statements.

3)Nudist? That was not one of the 3..not sure what to do with that one.

4)...i have no 4th point. Just part of a strange tread I guess.



semaJ...tsirhC nI

 

[Brother Bob]

We have been blessed. amen raise:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Le Buick: I am convinced my Brother, Adam must accept Jesus as his lord and personal savior if he is to have eternal life.

HP: I totally agree, once he sinned. The question I have tried to raise lies antecedent to the fall. The question was, did he have eternal life ‘before’ the fall? I maintain he had to in order to be in a right relationship with God. God breathed into him the breath of life. Will any on this thread limit that to physical breath alone? As Adam walked with God in obedience are we to believe he could not properly assume that if he was to stay in that obedient state that he would indeed live with God for eternity? Were not the commands to him simple? Do this and ye shall live. Do this and ye shall surely die? Could he not have walked in absolute confidence that God would never leave or forsake him as long as he remained in obedience? It is true that Adam, prior to the fall, was not ‘saved’ nor did he need to be. Just the same, was he not one with God and in perfect fellowship with Him? If that is not co-equal to the benefits of salvation with a sure hope of eternal life, why not? Did Adam have to sin to get the ‘once saved always saved’ package? If so, why is this not placing a premium eternal benefit on sinning?? Want eternal life? Sin to get it!

 

[gekko]

"was adam a calvinist?"
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who cares? whether its calvinist, armeni-ist, fundamental or what-have-you christian denomonation. who cares?
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i find it a dumb question (sorry. i do.) so why bring it up.
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Was Adam once saved always saved? He had been given the gift eternal life, partaking of the tree of life, had he not? Was he always eteranlly secure in spite of the fall?

whats it matter if adam was "osas"? what's it matter if he was given the gift of eternal life? what's it matter if he was or wasnt "eternally secure" in spite of the fall?
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sure dont matter does it?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Gekko: sure dont matter does it?

HP: I believe how one looks at Adam before the fall tells a lot about ones knowledge or lack thereof of the nature of eternal life, sin, and righteousness. That period of time exposes the joys and hopes the first pair enjoyed, what sin consists of, how sin was chosen, the consequents of their choices, etc. It has became obvious that some on this list are confused in these areas and have landed in error.

Sometimes we need our thinking compressed into a simple and confined time frame without many of the variables that exist in ones mind in successive generations, to aide in illuminating our minds to the realities, not only concerning Adams present and future hopes and consequences, but ours as well.

Here is a simple straight forward question for you Gecko. Did Adam entertain a living reality and future hope of continued eternal life while in a state of obedience as the first pair walked with God in the garden? Was there any reason not to believe that in this state of obedience they ate from the tree of Life freely up until the point of their act of willing disobedience to a known commandment of God?

God obviously desires for us to learn from this time period as well as any other. It is put there for doctrine, for reproof , for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, just as all Scripture is.

 

[Brother Bob]

Sure it matters is you believe that all the Scriptures were given for our learning, amen raise:

 

[BobRyan]

In Genesis 2 and 3 it is obvious that God did not create Adam "to die". It is obvious that "God so loved" from the very start. It is obvious that Adam was in perfect sinnless holy fellowhip with God - walking WITH God in the cool of the evening.

God did not say "Adam - you are going to die it is just a matter of when and how".

The NT states that "Adam was the son of God" - and thus "shows" the family relationship of Adam to God -- not as in the ontological relationship of God the Son to God the Father - but the family relationship to God the Father - held by those directly created by God Himself!

Redemption RESTORES fallen mankind!