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Was Balaam "Saved"?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Jan 19, 2005.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Just acknowledging you've sinned doesn't save you. There is no evidence Balaam was saved, especially when his name is listed in a passage in the Bible where God denounces and condemns false teachers. Listing "the way of Balaam" as a way of condemnation is pretty clear.
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Matthew Henry has a long commentary on the Balaam story. He thinks, as I do, that Balaam only showed outward signs of some change, but there is no reference to inward change.
    Another commentary also agrees there was no real repentance on Balaam's part:
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I looked at these and none of them say anything about the "faithfullness" or anything good about Balaam. They just give an account of how God used Balaam; they do not praise him at all.

    Micah says to remember the righteous acts of the Lord:
    They were to remember that Balak wanted Israel cursed and Balaam blessed Israel, but only because God arranged it that way. Balaam spoke the words God put in his mouth. It was a rebuke to the pagans who were against Israel, and to show Israel how God preserved and protected them. Balaam is clearly condemned in 2 Peter.
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Well, lots of God's servants are rebuked in scripture, lots of God's servants were vile humans, lots of God's servants die horrible deaths, at the hands of other servants. Balaam was a servant, even if unwilling. Based on that, and the fact that God and Balaam, on more than one occasion, spoke to each other in real time.....

    I believe he was saved, even if apostate. I guess you disagree. That's O.K. with me. It could very well be that I'm wrong, but I've read what the bible tells us about Balaam more than a few times. That's my formed opinion. I hope you can respect that.
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    No, I do not believe Balaam was saved. Balaam was in it for the money. Though mentioned more than once in the NT, never as an example of faith, and the just shall live by faith.

    His exclusion from Hebrews 11 is glaring.

    [edited to say I just read Marcia's post. Great post, Marcia! [​IMG] ]
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    2 Peter 2:15-16 " . . following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, but was rebuked for his iniquity."

    Condemned is YOUR word. God says He rebuked the prophet.
     
  7. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Hey....when did I go over 4000 posts ??!?!?!!!?! :eek:

    Probably 3 posts ago. [​IMG]
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    welcome to the 4000 post club! As for me, I need to find another outlet for my addiction to posting!!!
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    2 Peter 2:15-16 " . . following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, but was rebuked for his iniquity."

    Condemned is YOUR word. God says He rebuked the prophet.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The passage says Balaam was rebuked by a donkey - and that the words of the donkey "restrained" Balaam's "madness." Is this how God speaks about a saved person in the NT? It's sort of a humiliating thing to be rebuked by a donkey. I think it shows a pretty low view of Balaam by God, imo. This is part of a long, long passage about the condemnation and destruction of false teachers. It would certainly seem odd to refer to a saved person in such a passage. I think the 2 Peter passage locks it up.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Thanks, Aaron! [​IMG]
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    It is how I would describe some of the characters on the BaptistBoard, for sure. Not joking a bit. And worse on the FFF.

    And yes, I think they were saved.
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I don't equate humiliation with condemnation. The Bible never says Balaam was condemned. Says he was rebuked.

    Sampson, Adam, Noah, Moses, David, Solomon, The Apostle Paul, all humiliated. All brought to a low, some died as a result. All saved.
     
  13. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    2 Peter 2:15-16 " . . following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, but was rebuked for his iniquity."

    Condemned is YOUR word. God says He rebuked the prophet.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The passage says Balaam was rebuked by a donkey - and that the words of the donkey "restrained" Balaam's "madness." Is this how God speaks about a saved person in the NT? It's sort of a humiliating thing to be rebuked by a donkey. I think it shows a pretty low view of Balaam by God, imo. This is part of a long, long passage about the condemnation and destruction of false teachers. It would certainly seem odd to refer to a saved person in such a passage. I think the 2 Peter passage locks it up.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Obviously you have never been rebuked by a donkey. Whether he was saved or not is really a side issue. He is held up as an example of what not to do for Christians, which indicates that Christians can fall into the error of Balaam.

    2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
     
  14. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    Condemn and rebuke have very similar meanings. We shouldn't take condemn to mean damn to the lake of fire for all eternity. It probably doesn't usually mean this.
     
  15. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Yes, rebuked by a donkey! I think that says a lot.

    I don't see how you can compare Balaam with Noah, Moses, Solomon, etc.! Balaam is listed in a passage that does condemn false teachers (just read it) - none of the others here are listed there. The false teachers are condemned to damnation.
     
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    It is how I would describe some of the characters on the BaptistBoard, for sure. Not joking a bit. And worse on the FFF.
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Who do you mean by "they?"
     
  17. IveyLeaguer

    IveyLeaguer New Member

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    Interesting question, Dr. Bob.

    I think it was more a case of obedient/disobedient, not so much willing/unwilling, because Balaam was apparently some kind of sorcerer, or at least had some kind of occult practice. And the fact that God communicated with him directly doesn't prove anything. There are OT examples of God communicating directly with fallen angels who have been obedient and carried out His will. It's not much of a stretch to see He could do the same with a man.
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Excellent point. Many of us have, from time to time, been rebuked (that is, we have been the recipient of corrective criticism), yet I think it's safe to say that most of us are saved.
    Not in the salvific sense that is being espoused here. This comes from adding 21st century context to a 17th century word.
     
  19. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I was looking in websters 1828 dictionary. Condemn in and of itself has nothing to do with salvation persay. More to pronouncing something to be wrong, sometimes in the sense of a sentence as in a judgment. You may be condemned to pay a fine. You may be condemned to prison. You may be condemned as a heretic. None of these imply that you will be going to the lake of fire.
     
  20. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Being rebuked does not prove he was favored by God, either. In Jude, a book very similar to 2 Peter 2, the very chapter which mentions Balaam in a very derogatory way, we have Michael the Archangel saying to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you." So being rebuked does not mean someone is saved.

    Balaam is held up as an example of unrighteousness in 2 Peter 2, a chapter which does condemn false teachers. I looked up the word for "madness" there (in reference to Balaam) and it means lawlessness.

    The only 2 mentions of Balaam in the NT are in 2 Peter 2 and in Jude 11, both basically saying the same negative thing:
    Given that there is no substantial evidence in the OT that Balaam was saved, and that the only 2 references to him in the NT are negative, I would say one would have to conclude there is no evidence Balaam was saved.
     
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