Their insistence on Sabbath as sign of being really saved and their Investigative Judgement show to us they are a biblical Cult!
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Was Bible possesion banned by the Catholic Church?
- Thread starter Hobie
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Why "biblical"?
Term used by Walter Martin, to mark out cults that use bible terms and claim to see scriptures as their source of theology, even though they do not!
I call them "pseudo/quasi-Christian cults ".
Walpole
Well-Known Member
If the Catholic Church banned people from reading the Scriptures, why are there so many Catholic commentaries on the Scriptures?
---> Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - InterVarsity Press
How exactly could they be commentating on that which they did not have access to?
Do you know what the first book Johannes Gutenberg (a Catholic) printed on his newly invented movable-type printing press?
---> Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - InterVarsity Press
How exactly could they be commentating on that which they did not have access to?
Do you know what the first book Johannes Gutenberg (a Catholic) printed on his newly invented movable-type printing press?
If the Catholic Church banned people from reading the Scriptures, why are there so many Catholic commentaries on the Scriptures?
---> Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - InterVarsity Press
How exactly could they be commentating on that which they did not have access to?
Do you know what the first book Johannes Gutenberg (a Catholic) printed on his newly invented movable-type printing press?
Most of the commentary was made by RC OFFICIALS, not laymen.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
So you believe all these men were never exposed to the Christian Scriptures until the hands of a bishop were laid upon them and they were ordained, hence becoming "OFFICIALS"?
I know you typically flee when I ask for this, but I'm afraid I need to ask for those pesky and stubborn things we call facts.
Post your evidence here please --->
I agree in part. If they actually believe that what they did in the past was wrong, I won't hold it against them. But if they believe the past actions were justified, that means they would do it again and I have to oppose those beliefs.
Since Rome official theology still Trent, still not true church!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
The church at first was following what Christ and the Apostles gave them, so there were some remnants of the truth. But the overwhelming destruction of the majority of what was there in the early church by its banning of the Word and persecution of the true believers, and replacement by its own 'tradition' and false doctrines, have transformed it into the antichrist entity we see today.If the Catholic Church banned people from reading the Scriptures, why are there so many Catholic commentaries on the Scriptures?
---> Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture - InterVarsity Press
How exactly could they be commentating on that which they did not have access to?
Do you know what the first book Johannes Gutenberg (a Catholic) printed on his newly invented movable-type printing press?
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Here is a good explanation by my buddy Amo, how it became what scripture foretold...
Interesting, and in accordance with the predictions of biblical prophecy.
The first beast of the book of Rev. 13 is the fifth beast of biblical prophecy, the first four beasts being found in the book of Daniel chapter seven. They were 1. The Lion with wings which represented the Babylonian empire. 2. The bear which raised itself up on one side, which represented the Medo-Persian empire. 3. The leopard which had four wings, and four heads, which represented the Grecian empire. 4. The incomparable beast, which had iron teeth and ten horns, which represented the pagan Roman empire.
These prophetic biblical beasts existed during the Old Covenant, the fourth beast ending, or transforming into another beast if you will shortly after the establishment of the New Covenant. Some of the Apostles addressed the beginnings, and some of the particulars of this transformation. The Apostle Paul spoke of the mystery of iniquity which had already begun in his day, and the man of sin, both of which are part of the fifth beast of biblical prophecy established during the New Covenant, and more thoroughly addressed in the book of Revelation.
This fifth beast of biblical prophecy, the first beast of the book of Rev. 13, was the holy Roman empire of the middle, or more rightly phrased, dark ages. The Papacy was the little horn which grew out of one of the ten horns of the fourth beast, who plucked up three of the other horns, had the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things (Dan 7:8). Not long after the establishment of the New Covenant, Christianity converted and conquered pagan Rome and it’s Emperor. By this time however, the mystery of iniquity had already greatly influenced the Church. The rulers of Rome half heartedly accepting Christianity for the sake of greater control of their empire, only accelerated the rate of this apostasy.
The result was the establishment of the little horn power spoken of in Daniel which, when it reached maturity became the first biblical beast of the New Covenant era. It was Papal Rome, a half Christian half pagan entity which ruled over the kings of Europe and persecuted and killed all that opposed her, including God’s true people for 1260 years. This is the first beast of the book of Rev 13. The following statement by William Durant sums it up well.
When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)
This persecuting religio-political power received a deadly wound in 1798 when the Pope was torn from his throne and put in exile until his death. At this time also, many new systems of government were being put in place, that would no longer allow a religion to politically dominate a country. The government of these United States not being at all among the least of them. However, this country, and world, will turn back time, and make an image to this first beast of Rev. 13. As Rev 13:14 points out, they will do this in the sight, or under the supervision if you will, of the first beast whose deadly wound is healed.
The image to the beast will be a restoration of the form of government which the first beast implemented, that is a religio-political persecuting governmental power. It will be the reestablishment of the authority and dominance of the Papacy on a world wide scale. The United States is that lamb like beast, the second beast of Rev 13 and sixth beast of biblical prophecy which will be transformed into a dragon like beast by making an image to the first beast of Rev 13 under it’s direct supervision. Thus resurrecting the Holy Roman empire on a world wide scale.
This resurrected Holy Roman empire on a worldwide scale will be the seventh and final beast of biblical prophecy. This is the beast of Rev 13 that received a deadly wound that was healed, the beast of Rev 17 that was, is not, and yet is, and the beast of Rev 17 that is even an eighth, but is one of the seven. There is no literal eighth beast, but rather the number eight is the number of the resurrection, and therefore symbolic of the resurrection of the Holy Roman empire as the seventh beast. Thus this final beast is even an eighth by way of a seeming resurrection, but is really one of the seven by way of reestablishment with the help of the sixth beast, the United States of America.
This process is taking place in our country right now through the inundation of our federal government with Roman Catholic politicians who are carrying out the will of Rome, against the will of the people of United States of America. Thus more people feel totally unrepresented by their supposed representative government now, than ever before. This is of course, because they are not being represented, Rome is. Our government is seizing more and more power over us every single day, by the influence of the vast number of Roman Catholic politicians within the same, under the direction of the Vatican. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The old US is on it’s way out. The new US ridden by Rome is on the way in. The rest of the world will follow suite, the predictions of Rev 13 will be fulfilled, and then the end will come.
Nevertheless, God’s message will go forward during the same, with great power and light. The gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, and then the end will come. As the final beast power of biblical prophecy grows in power and influence, the difference between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom will become all the more glaring. All will make their choice which one they want to be a part of, and then the end will come. It is for this reason alone, that God will allow strong delusion to come upon the world, and the mark of the beast to be forced upon all, that all decisions might be made before Christ returns the second time to put an end to all rule save His own. Then He will submit to the Father, that God might once again be acknowledged by all, as all in all. The question of sin and rebellion will be forever ended.
Interesting, and in accordance with the predictions of biblical prophecy.
The first beast of the book of Rev. 13 is the fifth beast of biblical prophecy, the first four beasts being found in the book of Daniel chapter seven. They were 1. The Lion with wings which represented the Babylonian empire. 2. The bear which raised itself up on one side, which represented the Medo-Persian empire. 3. The leopard which had four wings, and four heads, which represented the Grecian empire. 4. The incomparable beast, which had iron teeth and ten horns, which represented the pagan Roman empire.
These prophetic biblical beasts existed during the Old Covenant, the fourth beast ending, or transforming into another beast if you will shortly after the establishment of the New Covenant. Some of the Apostles addressed the beginnings, and some of the particulars of this transformation. The Apostle Paul spoke of the mystery of iniquity which had already begun in his day, and the man of sin, both of which are part of the fifth beast of biblical prophecy established during the New Covenant, and more thoroughly addressed in the book of Revelation.
This fifth beast of biblical prophecy, the first beast of the book of Rev. 13, was the holy Roman empire of the middle, or more rightly phrased, dark ages. The Papacy was the little horn which grew out of one of the ten horns of the fourth beast, who plucked up three of the other horns, had the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things (Dan 7:8). Not long after the establishment of the New Covenant, Christianity converted and conquered pagan Rome and it’s Emperor. By this time however, the mystery of iniquity had already greatly influenced the Church. The rulers of Rome half heartedly accepting Christianity for the sake of greater control of their empire, only accelerated the rate of this apostasy.
The result was the establishment of the little horn power spoken of in Daniel which, when it reached maturity became the first biblical beast of the New Covenant era. It was Papal Rome, a half Christian half pagan entity which ruled over the kings of Europe and persecuted and killed all that opposed her, including God’s true people for 1260 years. This is the first beast of the book of Rev 13. The following statement by William Durant sums it up well.
When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror. The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome. Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art. When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind. May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)
This persecuting religio-political power received a deadly wound in 1798 when the Pope was torn from his throne and put in exile until his death. At this time also, many new systems of government were being put in place, that would no longer allow a religion to politically dominate a country. The government of these United States not being at all among the least of them. However, this country, and world, will turn back time, and make an image to this first beast of Rev. 13. As Rev 13:14 points out, they will do this in the sight, or under the supervision if you will, of the first beast whose deadly wound is healed.
The image to the beast will be a restoration of the form of government which the first beast implemented, that is a religio-political persecuting governmental power. It will be the reestablishment of the authority and dominance of the Papacy on a world wide scale. The United States is that lamb like beast, the second beast of Rev 13 and sixth beast of biblical prophecy which will be transformed into a dragon like beast by making an image to the first beast of Rev 13 under it’s direct supervision. Thus resurrecting the Holy Roman empire on a world wide scale.
This resurrected Holy Roman empire on a worldwide scale will be the seventh and final beast of biblical prophecy. This is the beast of Rev 13 that received a deadly wound that was healed, the beast of Rev 17 that was, is not, and yet is, and the beast of Rev 17 that is even an eighth, but is one of the seven. There is no literal eighth beast, but rather the number eight is the number of the resurrection, and therefore symbolic of the resurrection of the Holy Roman empire as the seventh beast. Thus this final beast is even an eighth by way of a seeming resurrection, but is really one of the seven by way of reestablishment with the help of the sixth beast, the United States of America.
This process is taking place in our country right now through the inundation of our federal government with Roman Catholic politicians who are carrying out the will of Rome, against the will of the people of United States of America. Thus more people feel totally unrepresented by their supposed representative government now, than ever before. This is of course, because they are not being represented, Rome is. Our government is seizing more and more power over us every single day, by the influence of the vast number of Roman Catholic politicians within the same, under the direction of the Vatican. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The old US is on it’s way out. The new US ridden by Rome is on the way in. The rest of the world will follow suite, the predictions of Rev 13 will be fulfilled, and then the end will come.
Nevertheless, God’s message will go forward during the same, with great power and light. The gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, and then the end will come. As the final beast power of biblical prophecy grows in power and influence, the difference between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom will become all the more glaring. All will make their choice which one they want to be a part of, and then the end will come. It is for this reason alone, that God will allow strong delusion to come upon the world, and the mark of the beast to be forced upon all, that all decisions might be made before Christ returns the second time to put an end to all rule save His own. Then He will submit to the Father, that God might once again be acknowledged by all, as all in all. The question of sin and rebellion will be forever ended.
The Middle ages not in Revelation, as Ellen White prophecy understanding was not from God!
Why do you always deflect?
Walpole
Well-Known Member
We have the names of all the opponents of the Catholic Church in antiquity. Those include the actual Roman state and emperors, then groups like the Gnostics as well as people like Theodatus, Paul of Samosata, Sabellius, Arius, Nestorius, etc. The early Church had many debates with the likes of these, and even held ecumenical Councils to condemn their teachings and affirm the faith of the Church.
Can you give me the name of a leader of your sect who spoke out against and opposed the Catholic Church?
What books of the Word do you think the Church of antiquity was banning when she was assembling what would be called the Bible? Do you think the canon is missing books that were banned?
Your point is?
RCC did not give to us the Bible, as the 66 Canon books were fixed and known and in use far before any Council!
Give us your evidence of any church besides the One Universal (Katholikois - Catholic) Church which was the home of the Early Church Fathers that compiled those 66 books you are talking about. There was ONE Christian Church that compiled the Bible (which was actually more than 66 books).
In every instance you claim this, or you claim that, all done to justify the existence of your sect, a sect that DID NOT come about until the late 16th or early 17th century. Your version of things just does not match the historical record of early Christianity. Take off the blinders and learn to respect the truth. You can have your little sect, but you cannot say that your version of history concerning Christianity is the truth.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
That is all they can do as history shows how the church at Rome apostatized and brought in the substitute worship and pagan rites and rituals, and you cant hide that.
My sect is the true church of Christ, whose teachings is baptist kike. not as RCC teaches!
Hobie, you lost me right there. The T.R. didn't come into existence until the early 1500s.
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