Was Christ Resurrected For The Ungodly?

[BrotherJoseph]

I believe the Calvinist does also.
The most popular and oft quoted verse in the world:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This very popular verse has a different meaning to a relatively few people (Calvinists) compared to the vast majority of Christians in the world. Why? They willy nilly change the definitions of words according to their own preconceived ideas born from Calvin.
If they can do that here why not from Psalm 23:1, Acts 20:28, etc., as I have demonstrated. The answer: It would make a mockery of Biblical hermeneutics as you well know. The Calvinist is already mocking Biblical hermeneutics as there is absolutely nowhere in the entire Bible where the word "whosoever" requires the translation or rather the interpretation of "the elect"!

DHK,

The word "world" in John 3:16 does mean only the elect when interpreted properly. The Greek word translated "world" in John 3:16 is Kosmos. Strong's Concordance of the Greek New Testament has this definition:


Kosmos - orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants [Editor's Emphasis], literally or figuratively [morally]):— adorning, world.

It can be seen from Strong's defintion that "world" can be interpreted in it's wide sense (every single person) or narrow sense (limited number of persons). Therefore John 3:16 does not automatically mean every single person. Here are some definitive New Testament passages that show how world (kosmos) is often used in a narrow sense.


John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world (kosmos) is gone after him.

Did the entire "world" go after Christ? Would to God that they had but unfortunately we know this wasn't the case then or now. World clearly does not mean every single person but rather the Pharisees were lamenting that large numbers of people had followed Christ then just as they do now. Indeed it is the "world" of believers who followed Christ and they are the ones God loved in John 3:16.


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If "world" always means every single person then Christ would have just said no-one can receive the Spirit of truth. And Christ would have also included the Apostles among those who could not receive the Spirit of truth. But it is evident that every single person is not meant for Christ goes on to say that the Apostles did know the Spirit of truth who dwelled in them. It is also evident that all believers receive the Spirit of truth therefore "world" does not mean every single person.


Ro 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world (kosmos).

When Paul wrote this epistle, did the natives of North and South America know of the faith of the church at Rome? What about many other people in the furthest places on earth? Did they know about the Roman Church's faith in Christ at that time? Paul is using "world" as a figure of speech to indicate that the faith of the Roman Church was known in a great many places by a great many people but not that every single person of earth knew about their faith.


Ro 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world (kosmos), what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:1-32

The "casting away of them" is referring to the the nation of Israel. The "reconciling of the world" is referring to the Gentiles. But if "world" always means every single person then Paul's statement makes no sense for he would have just said that God had cast away people that He reconciled. Thus, "world" here, as in other places, doesn't mean every single person.


As far as the usage of the word "whosoever" in John 3:16 this scripture does not say, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish but get eternal life." That would make eternal life a condition to be met. Christ says whosoever believes has eternal life. In other words it is a statement of fact that those who believe, already have life

 

[Yeshua1]

DHK,

The word "world" in John 3:16 does mean only the elect when interpreted properly. The Greek word translated "world" in John 3:16 is Kosmos. Strong's Concordance of the Greek New Testament has this definition:


Kosmos - orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants [Editor's Emphasis], literally or figuratively [morally]):— adorning, world.

It can be seen from Strong's defintion that "world" can be interpreted in it's wide sense (every single person) or narrow sense (limited number of persons). Therefore John 3:16 does not automatically mean every single person. Here are some definitive New Testament passages that show how world (kosmos) is often used in a narrow sense.


John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world (kosmos) is gone after him.

Did the entire "world" go after Christ? Would to God that they had but unfortunately we know this wasn't the case then or now. World clearly does not mean every single person but rather the Pharisees were lamenting that large numbers of people had followed Christ then just as they do now. Indeed it is the "world" of believers who followed Christ and they are the ones God loved in John 3:16.


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If "world" always means every single person then Christ would have just said no-one can receive the Spirit of truth. And Christ would have also included the Apostles among those who could not receive the Spirit of truth. But it is evident that every single person is not meant for Christ goes on to say that the Apostles did know the Spirit of truth who dwelled in them. It is also evident that all believers receive the Spirit of truth therefore "world" does not mean every single person.


Ro 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world (kosmos).

When Paul wrote this epistle, did the natives of North and South America know of the faith of the church at Rome? What about many other people in the furthest places on earth? Did they know about the Roman Church's faith in Christ at that time? Paul is using "world" as a figure of speech to indicate that the faith of the Roman Church was known in a great many places by a great many people but not that every single person of earth knew about their faith.


Ro 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world (kosmos), what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:1-32

The "casting away of them" is referring to the the nation of Israel. The "reconciling of the world" is referring to the Gentiles. But if "world" always means every single person then Paul's statement makes no sense for he would have just said that God had cast away people that He reconciled. Thus, "world" here, as in other places, doesn't mean every single person.


As far as the usage of the word "whosoever" in John 3:16 this scripture does not say, "whosoever believeth in him should not perish but get eternal life." That would make eternal life a condition to be met. Christ says whosoever believes has eternal life. In other words it is a statement of fact that those who believe, already have life

Think that we have to come to the scriptures and try to understand them in the light of the entire witness of the scriptures, as how could God literally mean every one here, when he also has stated several times to us that not all will get saved?

 

[BrotherJoseph]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[Revmitchell]

DHK,

The word "world" in John 3:16 does mean only the elect when interpreted properly. The Greek word translated "world" in John 3:16 is Kosmos. Strong's Concordance of the Greek New Testament has this definition:

While I only quoted a smal section of what you posted none of it made your case that world only means elect. Such an interpretation is quite eisegetical. In fact you wrecked your entire argument when you made it known that the word is "kosmos" . That very word makes it impossible that your narrow eisegetical interpretation is fitting here.

 

[The Archangel]

While I only quoted a smal section of what you posted none of it made your case that world only means elect. Such an interpretation is quite eisegetical. In fact you wrecked your entire argument when you made it known that the word is "kosmos" . That very word makes it impossible that your narrow eisegetical interpretation is fitting here.

While I do not agree that "world" means "elect," your counter argument here about the meaning of "kosmos" is an example of the lexical fallacy.

It is possible, as BrotherJoseph has pointed out, that "world" does not always mean "all without exception."

After all, if it always means "all without exception," the Pharisees' confirm that all the world--everyone without exception--has gone after Jesus. And, we know from a whole host of evidences that is not the case.

The Archangel

 

[BrotherJoseph]

While I only quoted a smal section of what you posted none of it made your case that world only means elect. Such an interpretation is quite eisegetical. In fact you wrecked your entire argument when you made it known that the word is "kosmos" . That very word makes it impossible that your narrow eisegetical interpretation is fitting here.

Rev Mitchell,

As I pointed out, the same Greek word "kosmos" (meanding world) is also used in the same book by the same writer in John 14:17," Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Does the word "kosmos" here mean every human being who ever will live or only the "world" of unbelievers?

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev Mitchell,

As I pointed out, the same Greek word "kosmos" (meanding world) is also used in the same book by the same writer in John 14:17," Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Does the word "kosmos" here mean every human being who ever will live or only the "world" of unbelievers?

Interesting, so accroding to your use of the word "kosmos" the elect cannot receive Christ if you take your logic to its full potential.

If elect was intended the word elect could have been used. Lack of its use is a clear enough argument against your position.

 

[savedbymercy]

No, not at all. The "our" means the world.
Why imply it refers to believers? If you are going to interpret it that way, then one might be justified in the interpretation that Paul is writing to the Romans and it applies only to the Romans and not to you at all.

What about Psalm 23:1. "The Lord is my shepherd." Is the "Lord" only the shepherd of David? That is what it says, and according to the Calvinistic way of interpretation being espoused here that is what it must be limited to. He can't be your shepherd too, for that is not what David said.

In Acts 20:28
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
--Paul is speaking only to the church at Ephesus. He purchased the believers of the church of Ephesus with his own blood--no other church, no other believers, but them. It refers just to them. This verse was directed only to the Ephesian elders mentioned in verse 17:
Act 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
--It is not applicable to you.
This is the Calvinistic method of interpretation.

Thus when it comes to verses like John 3:16, where God so "loved the world" the "world" must not be the "world" in total, just like the Ephesian church can't represent other churches. You must be consistent in your interpretation. If the "world" must have a limited definition of the elect, then the Ephesian church must also have a limited definition, as also David's Lord in Psalm 23:1.

But I am thankful that I am not constrained by such a limited interpretation of God's Word.

Tell me, how many people does God love? How extensive is God's love?
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
--Sorry, he left you out. His love was limited to Paul alone. If he didn't love you, you are not one of the elect. This makes the case for election very easy. Paul is the only one--according to Calvinistic logic.

Therefore:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
--Were many made sinners or were all made sinners?

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

By the offence of one, were many dead or all dead?
Likewise, did the grace of God which came by one man, was it available to many or to all?

The answer is more clearly given:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
--It simply must be received. All means all. It does not simply refer to the elect.

The resurrection also if for all.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
--All died; all will be made alive; some to eternal life; others to eternal death.

No it doesn't mean the world, that would mean the world is Justified! We know that all the world without exception is not Justified before God, some are under His wrath John 3:36!

 

[BrotherJoseph]

Interesting, so accroding to your use of the word "kosmos" the elect cannot receive Christ if you take your logic to its full potential.



If elect was intended the word elect could have been used. Lack of its use is a clear enough argument against your position.

Rev Mitchel

Are you going to answer my question from my previous reply to you? Here it is again, I said and never received a reply, "As I pointed out, the same Greek word "kosmos" (meanding world) is also used in the same book by the same writer in John 14:17," Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Does the word "kosmos" here mean every human being who ever will live or only the "world" of unbelievers? As far as my logic goes, if the word "kosmos" (world) as used in John 14:17 is only used in a limited meanings to discuss all the nonelect, it follows that the word "kosmos" (world) in John 3:16 could also be used in a limited meaning referring only to the elect.

If you desire another examples from scripture beside John 3:16 that demonstrate the word "kosmos" (world) is utilized to refer only to the elect (without the word "elect" being used in the passage) see below-

Ro 11:15 "For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world (kosmos), what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

Is the word, "world" in the preceding verse only describing the elect?

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev Mitchel

Are you going to answer my question from my previous reply to you? Here it is again, I said and never received a reply, "As I pointed out, the same Greek word "kosmos" (meanding world) is also used in the same book by the same writer in John 14:17," Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world (kosmos) cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." Does the word "kosmos" here mean every human being who ever will live or only the "world" of unbelievers? As far as my logic goes, if the word "kosmos" (world) as used in John 14:17 is only used in a limited meanings to discuss all the nonelect, it follows that the word "kosmos" (world) in John 3:16 could also be used in a limited meaning referring only to the elect.

If you desire another examples from scripture beside John 3:16 that demonstrate the word "kosmos" (world) is utilized to refer only to the elect (without the word "elect" being used in the passage) see below-

Ro 11:15 "For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world (kosmos), what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?"

Is the word, "world" in the preceding verse only describing the elect?

I did answer it. You may not like my answer but I in fact responded to your post. I suggest you deal with it as I gave my answer.

I have never made the argument that world can only be used in an all encompassing manner. If you are going to argue that point you will have to find someone else.

However, I will argue that the word world is always used in a general sense and never specific. You are trying to narrow it down to much to fit your position.