Was Elijah wrong?

[Luke2427]

Luke, you are no Elijah, nor are you a Paul. Maybe when you grow up and become like them then maybe someone will take you seriously. Right now your attitude and attacks show nothing but a shallow immaturity.

Isn't this an attack???

Maybe one day you will grow up and not attack people and they will take you more seriously. In this post your attitude and attacks show nothing but a shallow immaturity.

Lead by example there, partner.

It is rather "immature" to attack somebody for attacking somebody while saying it is wrong to attack somebody.

 

[Luke2427]

Tried that a while back after haven patiently given ample opportunity to the opposition to back up his own challenge with somethng/anything at all with some real substance. Didn't help.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=70589&page=4

Start I thread on it. I'll meet you there.

 

[Luke2427]

No they were not wrong. Each of these men was filled with the Spirit of God & doing that which God had called them to do.

Comparing yourself and your tactics to these great men of God in order to justify your arrogant, rude, and insulting comments........THAT is wrong.

I found this post to be arrogant, rude and insulting- THAT is wrong.

No one is comparing anybody to anybody here- except you.

 

[sag38]

Isn't this an attack???

Maybe one day you will grow up and not attack people and they will take you more seriously. In this post your attitude and attacks show nothing but a shallow immaturity.

Lead by example there, partner.

It is rather "immature" to attack somebody for attacking somebody while saying it is wrong to attack somebody.

I'm just trying to put you on the receiving end of what you a shoveling out. You are the one who is equating yourself with Paul and Elijah. Are you called of God into the role of old testament prophet or of an apostle? Do you have a special calling to pronounce Calvinism to the modern church? Are you God's gestapo man sent to either win, silence, or destroy anyone who gets in the way through whatever "Biblical" means necessary? Are those who do not agree with your position to be called vipers? Are they to be mocked? Are they to be beaten with Paul's rod. Are they to be yelled at? Should they be bombarded with pithy little poems belittling them?

 

[Skandelon]

Luke,

You do appear to be saying:

Elijah was harsh and mocked the worshippers of Baal, so I am right to be harsh and mocking toward non-Calvinists.

Can you see how that might be insulting toward us and quite presumptuous on your part?

 

[Winman]

What do the scriptures say?

2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I believe we all get frustrated at times with those who do not agree with us. I am as guilty of this as anyone, but I try to remember these verses when I can.

 

[dwmoeller1]

Yes it does. One example of mocking which is approved by God (that is the question at hand whether or not it was) is enough for us to say it "most assuredly tells us that there ARE times when such is appropriate."

We can quibble about how often and in what contexts- but we can say "most assuredly" that there are times and contexts when this is appropriate. (if Elijah was not wrong)

As Scripture does not indicate that God approved, my point stands. The single example cannot constitute an "assurdely" by any means. Nor is the opposite true. The single example of mocking which Scripture indicates neither approval or disapproval can't be used for an argument either way.

 

[Skandelon]

Plus, I think we can all agree that didactic texts (as presented by Winman) out weigh narratives if there are apparent contradictions. We have several OT narratives which clearly are not meant to give us instruction on how to live life. (i.e. a King appointed by God marrying many wives or using concubines)

 

[glfredrick]

You didn't answer the question.

How about this one:

Is it wrong ALWAYS to mock the arrogant wicked who are enemies of God?

Is it wrong to ever humiliate a erring brother who is erring because of arrogance and ignorance?

If the answer is YES- it is wrong, then Elijah was wrong.

If the answer is NO- it is not wrong, then Elijah may have been doing a godly thing.

No one is trying to prescribe anything.

We are asking questions. Are these things right or wrong?

I'll keep it very simple.

Wrong... And in Elijah's case, it is obviously a "description" of an event that happened, not a "prescription" for how we approach this issue.

Just because Elijah did it does not make it right in every case, or even right in his case. He was working to prove a point, and under the leadership of the Spirit of God while doing so. Your using Elijah as a justification to beat up on people you disagree with (and all the others on this board who do likewise) are violating a ton of other Scripture that says that a gentle and meek voice is God's way.

Further, let's note Elijah's response post event. He was depressed. Sitting under a tree wishing to die. Not to overly criticize you, but you've been there a time or two after arguments on this board -- figuratively, if not literally.

EDIT: In review, Elijah did indeed "mock" the worshipers of Baal. But he did so in a far different manner than what we see commonly expressed here on this board. He did not pursue them as persons... He derided the fact that their "god" could not come out to play, suggesting that perhaps he/she/it was indisposed, using the bathroom, etc. That is far different from saying something along the lines of, "You stupid people..."

In a very simple and modern text, here is the actual story of Elijah and the false prophets:

At noon Elijah started making fun of them; "Pray louder! Hi is a god! Maybe he is day-dreaming or relieving himself, or perhaps he's gone off on a trip! Or maybe he's sleeping, and you've got to wake him up!" So the prophets prayed louder and cut themselves with knives and daggers, according to their ritual, until blood flowed. They kept on ranting and raving until the middle of the afternoon; but no answer came, not sound was heard.

That is all he said, and it was in the context of a sermon, where he was exhorting the people to turn their eyes toward God. As I see it, Elijah attacked the IDEA of another god, but he did not attack the prophets directly.

 

[Jerome]

Let's just be thankful Luke stopped reading where he did in I Kings 18 (hopefully somewhere well before verse 40).

 

[Skandelon]

Let's just be thankful Luke stopped reading where he did in I Kings 18 (hopefully somewhere well before verse 40).

:applause:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[glazer1972]

He was not wrong.

 

[Luke2427]

I'm just trying to put you on the receiving end of what you a shoveling out. You are the one who is equating yourself with Paul and Elijah.

No I am not. Can you point out where I said I was like Paul and Elijah?

 

[Luke2427]

:applause:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

That is funny!

But there is a time for that as well! There really is.

But I know all of the Servetus defenders would flip their lids to hear that!

 

[Luke2427]

Luke,

You do appear to be saying:

Elijah was harsh and mocked the worshippers of Baal, so I am right to be harsh and mocking toward non-Calvinists.

Can you see how that might be insulting toward us and quite presumptuous on your part?

I don't appear to be saying it just because you SAY I do.

I am not saying it.

I was just wondering how many people are swallowed up by this politically correct system that assaults us Christians on every hand.

I plead for boldness and bluntness, mingled with compassion in this age.

That is all I am saying.

I do not consider myself to be much at all like the prophet and the Apostle.

I do think ALL OF US ought to be willing to be bold and even harsh like they often were when the time calls for it.

AND I think the time calls for it more often than many consider.

Law to the proud; grace to the humble.

 

[sag38]

I do think ALL OF US ought to be willing to be bold and even harsh like they often were when the time calls for it.

AND I think the time calls for it more often than many consider.

Law to the proud; grace to the humble.

By all means put that into practice more often at your church and in your community. Leaksville is a nice quiet little town (been there for a funeral a few months back) but I'm sure it has its share of heathens and backsliders who need to be yelled at, mocked, and beaten with the rod of God's word. But, I bet in reality you are not like that. I bet you don't try to cram your named theology down people's throats like you do here. I bet you treat even the heathen and backslider with respect and dignity. I bet you don't yell at them, mock them, or beat them over the head with the word of God. It's easy to be caustic and hard here in the relative anonymity of the internet. I'm guilty of it too. I'm a lot nice in person than here.

 

[Luke2427]

I do think ALL OF US ought to be willing to be bold and even harsh like they often were when the time calls for it.

AND I think the time calls for it more often than many consider.

Law to the proud; grace to the humble.

By all means put that into practice more often at your church and in your community. Leaksville is a nice quiet little town (been there for a funeral a few months back) but I'm sure it has its share of heathens and backsliders who need to be yelled at, mocked, and beaten with the rod of God's word. But, I bet in reality you are not like that. I bet you don't try to cram your named theology down people's throats like you do here. I bet you treat even the heathen and backslider with respect and dignity. I bet you don't yell at them, mock them, or beat them over the head with the word of God. It's easy to be caustic and hard here in the relative anonymity of the internet. I'm guilty of it too. I'm a lot nice in person than here.

You know, it's funny you mention that. I do not think my town does require much action like that which I am espousing which Elijah and Paul and really every man of God in the Bible utilized from time to time.

All I am saying is that there is a time for it.

I am arguing against cowardice and political correctness.

My town is such that it needs a pastor more than a prophet. But it does on occasion need a prophet. My folks, who I believe love me, will tell you that I do the work of a prophet sometimes here. But I am a pastor mostly.

I am simply NOT a pastor on baptist board. No one is.

Debate is not for pastoring. We got the great creeds of the faith by good men who loved God and felt passionate about what they believed sitting down and vigorously hashing these things out.

That is what I think debate is for.

What funeral did you attend?

 

[Skandelon]

I don't appear to be saying it just because you SAY I do.

I am not saying it.

I was just wondering how many people are swallowed up by this politically correct system that assaults us Christians on every hand.

I plead for boldness and bluntness, mingled with compassion in this age.

That is all I am saying.

I do not consider myself to be much at all like the prophet and the Apostle.

I do think ALL OF US ought to be willing to be bold and even harsh like they often were when the time calls for it.

AND I think the time calls for it more often than many consider.

Law to the proud; grace to the humble.

:thumbs: Ok cool. Thanks for the clarity. I think that misunderstanding may have been the reason for some of the push back you were getting.

BTW, I agree with regarding the problem of political correctness. It will kill this country if we let it!

 

[sag38]

The funeral I attended was for a man whose last name was Walley. And, I agree that we are not to water down the message. Political correctness is a gospel killer when you can't preach about the blood, the cross, hell, sin, and personal responsibility. I guess I'm just going to have to offend the politically correct crowd.

 

[Luke2427]

The funeral I attended was for a man whose last name was Walley. And, I agree that we are not to water down the message. Political correctness is a gospel killer when you can't preach about the blood, the cross, hell, sin, and personal responsibility. I guess I'm just going to have to offend the politically correct crowd.

The Walley's are my family. They are from this area.

Undoubtedly this Walley is a relative of mine.