You did not ask me but only in the following context and that also includes the twelve tribes and also Lazarus/Elazar;
Gal 3:16
Gal 3: 29
IMHO
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Was Hebrews written to believers or unbelievers?
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You did not ask me but only in the following context and that also includes the twelve tribes and also Lazarus/Elazar;
Gal 3:16
Gal 3: 29
IMHO
How do the two verses in Galatians 3 answer this question:
"Are you saying that every person of the physical lineage of Abraham was and is saved?"
*Galatians 3:16,29*
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
You have totally missed the point. We are addressing the subject of Hebrews. If it was not the intent of God to save and to preserve these people forever as it is promised in their national and family covenants that were made with them in the OT, it would not make any sense to write letters to them and include future promises to them.
What I am saying is what the scriptures says about them, some of which I have quoted. When Jesus Christ comes back to earth, not as a Lamb, but as a Lion, it will be to purge all unbelievers of this people Israel from off the earth. Following is what he says about them when that happens, which is still future.
Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
STOP! If you will not allow this to have been spoken to the men of Israel like is told us then you need to end your reading of the text now because whatever you come up with will do nothing but confuse you further.
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
It has not come to pass yet. Jesus Christ is still to this day, Dec 21, 2022, in heaven. He has not destroyed all the people of that nation who have not heard and obeyed him and been saved.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The restitution of all things includes the reestablishing the kingdom of God on the earth with Jesus, the last Adam as King. His rule over all the earth will be through a converted Israel, every one who enters into his kingdom will be born again. If Israel would have received the Spirit in total in those days, Jesus would have already returned and would be sitting on his throne now. Since they did not, God is dealing their spiritual blessings of the New Covenant to gentiles and the remnant of Jews who believe into a body and not a nation. This is his purpose in this age of Israel's partial blindness. But this age will end very soon now, and he will restore all things and keep his covenant promises to Israel.
This is explained in the New Testament but you must have eyes to see.
So, the answer to you question is this;
No, I am not saying that every person of the lineage of Abraham was saved, but I am saying that all of his lineage through Isaac and Jacob who are left after their baptism of fire in the future, which will be few, will all be saved. That is what the scriptures teach if you will receive it.
That was a long bit of air just to provide a cogent last sentence.
I agree that the remnant of Israel will be saved in the end. God has ordained a late renewal of Jews to place their faith in Jesus as Paul tells us in his letter to the Romans. Jesus will return when the last of the elect comes to faith.
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. Gal 3:16
Let me ask a question.
Why will David receive the promises? When will he receive the promises? What promises? Heb 11:13 In faith died all these, not having received the promises, but from afar having seen them - Methinks that was inclusive of Abraham, Yes/No?
Is Abraham today just as his son, David, both dead and buried and has seen corruption?
Acts 13:34 “And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus:
‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ --- What sure mercies? Fifty days after the resurrection of Christ had David received the sure mercies?
Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
Who will give who, the sure mercies?
Does the following apply when speaking of being saved?
1 Peter 1:4,5 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for (unto) salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Is that heirship speaking of the inheritance spoken of in 1 Peter 1:5?
Will David be saved, receive the promises, because of what he did or because he was called of God to be of the faith of Abraham, that is, to be, Christ's.
Compare Matt 22:43-45
with
Acts 2:29-35
Then Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
I believe David's son becomes David's Lord, because he precedes him out of the dead.
David inherits through his Lord.
Consider 1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
or
And if Christ be not raised, David's faith is vain; David is yet in his sins.
Another thought specific to Hebrews methinks.
Heb 9:27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
Judgement, when?
1 Cor 15:22,23 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
24 then -- the end,
Ishmael? Was he a bad kid, man or just a sinner like us all? Judgment?
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Here are passages that cover the same time frame and has the same end.
Jesus prophesied the reaction of his own Judeaen countrymen that was fulfilled in the early chapters of Acts, 1-10. Those who were bidden to the marriage supper were the Jews. They would not come. Acts 1-7. Then he bid the Samaritans, representing the 10 scattered tribes, in Acts 8 and a few of them came but not enough to fill his house. Next he sent for the gentiles to come that his house might be full. This invitation has been going on for 2 thousand years and it, HIS HOUSE is almost full on this date in history, Dec 22, 2022.
Lk 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
Supper time is at the end of the day when the work is done. On the cross Jesus said "it is finished." He is ready to begin the next phase of his ministry, giving gifts.
Jn 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
38 Then Peter said unto them (the men of Israel), Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He 3: Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling (which is come to Christ), consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
I quote a verse from the above passage in Luke 14 to show the end to building the house (family).
Lk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Why call the gentiles after 10 years of dealing with those of Israel as the historical account shows in the story of Cornelius in Acts 10, the first gentile to be saved and a record of the opening of the door of faith to gentiles by Peter who possessed the keys to the door.
Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Acts 14: 27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.
Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Peter was the initial preacher of the gospel to each groups, Jew and gentiles, ten years apart.
Here is the answer;
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh (Israel), and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them (Israel) be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them (Israel) be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou (gentiles), being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them (those branches that were not broken off), and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee (the root is still Jewish). 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they (Israel branches) were broken off, and thou (gentile tree) standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue (collectively) in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they (collectively) abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (when the fullness of gentiles be come in and they no longer will believe then the house will be full then the next phase, saving Israel individually and collectively, every one of them, see next verse)
There are events and a time period between Rom 11:25 and Rom 11:26 that are given elsewhere in scripture.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
So, the gentiles were brought into the house, family, because those bidden, Israel, would not come. When Israel gets saved they will not be part of the house Jesus built. That house has been filled by gentiles. That house is later called the church of Jesus Christ, the family of God.
John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own (Judah and the strangers of Israel), and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
Are you aware that Jesus is the Temple and "His House" is all His children who are built upon Christ, the foundation? The entire Bible from the building of the first foreshadowing to Jesus openly telling us that He is the Temple, to Revelation (and Ezekiel) where the Temple (Jesus) comes to dwell with us forever is about Jesus. The church is the Israel of God.
I am not aware of that at all. It is not even remotely true. This is private interpretation and no one teaches such. If that is your conclusions from reading the scriptures, I suggest suing your educators for a refund of your money.
When I gave you the parable of Luke 14 in my previous post, a definite prophecy that was fulfilled, beginning in this age after the cross and ascension of Jesus Christ and filling the house up, I will give you another parable of Luke, the which fulfillment you may place between the verses of Romans 11:25 and Romans 11:26. Here is the parable, which is a prophesy.
10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
This is Jesus ascending to heaven to receive the kingdom from his Father so he could return and rule over them.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens (Israel) hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds) 26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. 28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
Read this again:
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed (Jesus Christ) shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The ones of Abraham's linage, Israel, will all be forgiven of their sins, to a man, after Jesus gets finished destroying those of this family who did not hear him.
These believers who did hear him during this age, and who are members of his church, will rule over those in that age, according to the parable, and the direct statement of Jesus to them. Watch it here.
Matt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
The regeneration of Matthew and the restitution of all things in Acts 3 are both referring to the same time frame. It is the age after this age.
The Bible defines both Israel and the church of Jesus Christ. They do not have the same definition.
37818
Well-Known Member
What do you think the Apostle Peter is talking about? 1 Peter 2:5, ". . . Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. . . ."
The Apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians 3:16, ". . . Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? . . ." Temple is singular, the you is plural.
Apparently you are missing the points of the conversation. Israel, sometimes referred to as "Jacob" are judicially blinded by God during this age. Therefore God is not dealing with them as his people and his nation because of their unbelief and refusal to receive him as their Messiah. He has divided them into two groups called in the NT scriptures, 1) Israel and 2) the "remnant according to the election of grace." These are the small number of individual Israelites who believed in Jesus Christ and were born of the Spirit. The fulfillment of the covenants of promise, i.e. the Abrahamic, the land or Palestinian, the Davidic, are on hold because they all require that all 12 tribes of Israel be in their land and every citizen be born again previous to it being established. This is what Jesus Christ would have accomplished through Israel had they believed in him. He came, he said, preaching the gospel, or the good news, of the kingdom, a prophetic theme of the OT, to none but Israel, because that is to whom the promises were made. He said the kingdom of heaven was "at hand."
This was nothing less than Israel rejecting the theocratic rule of God over their nation because the kingdom that our Lord was setting up was after the model of the Joshua in the judges. God was not present in Israel during this time in their history while they were in their land but he was their King and was ruling over his kingdom through judges and elders. This is the exact same rule that Jesus established during his time on earth and then he chose the 12 apostles and added one more later for the nations, which was a total of 13, like so in the judges. There were 70 elders in this economy. Read Luke 10 here. This is the model for the millennial reign of Jesus Christ and it will be these same men that followed him before because he has power to raise them from the dead. I have quoted from Matt 19 already where he said these 12 would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel in regeneration. During the days after the cross until the dispersion in 70 AD, these men were "stewards" of God and our Lord Jesus was absent in those days. I quoted a parable about them from Luke 19 which clearly shows this truth. These men must give account to God for their stewardship and they will be judged on faithfulness.
1 Sam 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.
7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Here is the apostle Paul addressing this subject;
1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
Paul, unlike the other apostles, is addressing the "mysteries" of the kingdom in his epistles. The gentile equation of this age was not mentioned in the OT scriptures and it would take someone of Paul's status to explain this development that is unique to this age. There are no mysteries mentioned in the general epistles of the Jewish Christian epistles. Neither are they charged with explaining the church. The Hebrews would receive those doctrines by reading Paul's epistles. The truths in these Jewish epistles will transcend the church age and will instruct those who are in the tribulation.
The church of Jesus Christ is not a subject of the OT prophets. The reason for that is because the perfect will of God was for Israel to repent and receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah and since all the truths of the church were hidden in OT types, they would have never been revealed and the gentiles would not have been in the body had they received him. They would have received the blessings of Abraham, which is salvation through his greater seed, Jesus Christ.
The passage you quoted from the epistle to the Ephesians is in the the very epistle whose theme is "the mystery of Christ." This mystery is defined in one verse and expounded upon throughout the epistle. The truths here revealed, Paul says, are mysteries hidden in God from before the foundation of the world and could never be learned or known except through special revelation, which was given to the apostle Paul particularly.
Ep 3: For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Verse 6 is the definition of the mystery. 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The fellowship of the mystery is Jews and gentiles in the same body, equal in standing and as one together.The cause of verse 1 is the building of this body, the church of Jesus Christ to be the temple of the Holy Spirit, whom he indwells both individually in the members and also collectively for eternity. This is also the Lamb's wife, taken from his body and fashioned into his bride after the OT type of Adam and Eve.
There is much wisdom to know about the church and this wonderful work of God in this age called the dispensation of the grace of God.
You don't understand. The Old Covenant is over. It's done. Israel as a nation is no longer in Covenant with God. The Israel of God is the chosen people of the New Covenant. These come from every nation tribe and tongue.
There is much wisdom to know about the church and the wonderful work if God in the New Covenant.
You struggle with Hebrews because you don't understand God and His Covenants.
37818
Well-Known Member
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