Was it "terrorism"or merely a criminal act?

[poncho]

Islam has been at war with the "people of the book" or Jews and Christians since Muhammad's Hijra (migration) to Medina where he exterminated the Jewish population. How many here know Muhammad's life history?

The idea that Islam is a religion is pure bunk. Islam is a totalitarian political system hiding behind a thin veil of religion. I don't how know many here have been paying attention to what is going on in Germany, France and Sweden lately but it's not good.

http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/tv-ad-encourages-german-women-to-wear-hijabs.101327/

Islam does not assimilate to other cultures.

We need to stop focusing on Muslims and start focusing on Islam itself.

What is Islam? Islam is a totalitarian political system hiding behind a thin veil of religion.

What is Islam's goal? To bring the law of Allah (Sharia) to all of the earth.

What mechanism does Islam use to achieve it's goal? Jihad.

What does Jihad mean? Struggle.

How many types of Jihad are there? Four.

What are the four types of Jihad? Can anyone tell me?

How can a non Muslim understand Islam? By studying Muhammad.

Muhammad is the "perfect Muslim prototype" . . . to know Islam is to know Muhammad . . . to know Muhammad is to know Islam.

There is only one Muslim we need to focus on and that Muslim is Muhammad.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I'm sure you know more than most of us, but that knowledge should not translate to your judging the opinions and views of those opposed to yours!

What?

Having knowledge somehow makes one unfit to evaluate opposing opinions and viewpoints?

Wow.

I think that most of what is being shared above is out of frustration towards a political system that seems to have turned a blind eye towards our security and because of the lack of desire for this administration to protect Americans in general, people have become angry, and fearful and a lot of what has been said is coming from that frame of mind!

I disagree about the political system turning a blind eye to security, but I do wholeheartedly agree that a lot of what is said comes out of anger and fear.

Now I ask you this... Are Christians supposed to be characterized by anger and fear? If you are living your life in anger and fear, you need to find a place of peace in Christ. The apostle Paul had plenty to be angry and fearful about, but he demonstrated confidence in God and the willingness to act thoughtfully and carefully and he responded to the injustices of his day. Our ultimate example is Jesus Who lived a life not characterized by anger and fear at all. In fact, it is quite notable and unusual when He seemed to display those emotions.

You have to admit, if it were a sect of Baptists that were blowing the world up, and killing folks one by one in the name of the baptist god, they would be heavily judged. More so than the Muslims are being judged! And if in fact it were a sect of baptists leading a jihad, I would like to think that all good God fearing Baptists would be doing everything in their power to rout out the bad guys and expose them for what they were, terrorists! The problem is, you don't see this happening enough in the Muslim religion!

The Muslim community is actually doing a great deal behind the scenes. Most of those stories cannot be told for many years because of safety and intelligence reasons, but you should be happy to know that Muslims are making great sacrifices for the United States and for their peaceful Muslim brothers and sisters.

The truth is, I think most Muslims are hedging their bets, and remain neutral in case the radicals win. This way they won't face death and punishment for making a fuss!

There's a broadbrush assertion. If that were so, how come so many Muslims are fleeing/fighting ISIS? That's hardly neutral. The radical Islamic terrorist side of Islam inflicts enormous suffering on other Muslims. Why would they want to be neutral? Moreover, you may point to the normal people trying to live their lives in the midst of the conflict and claim that they are trying to hedge their bets. I don't think they are thinking in those terms. They are trying to stay alive.

I don't think that many people in the United States understand what it means to be a refugee. When my mother's family was in Nazi-controlled territory in WWII, then Russian-controlled territory toward the end of the way, they were not trying to kill or overthrow the evil leadership. They were not equipped to do anything of the sort. They were a family led by my grandfather and grandmother, with two little girls and almost nothing to their name. Were they hedging their bets? Nope. They were trying to survive. It took a lot of skill and negotiation by my grandfather to get his family out of the Russian zone and over to the American zone before they were permanently locked into a Communist dictatorship. Although this did not play a factor in the Americans receiving them into their zone, my mother's family was marked for death by the Communists. Then the American people wanted nothing to do with those foreigners in Europe and so they kept enormous restrictions on immigration to disallow almost all immigration to the US. Through an interesting twist of God's providence, they managed to meet a very narrow criteria and were eventually allowed to settle in the US. Otherwise, they would have been deported by to a Communist regime that was raping and murdering all who were returned in that way.

That is my opinion, of course, but it seems to be a solid opinion based on the lack of anger towards radicals within their own religion! They could help their cause by making a more honest, outward, overt, rather than covert response and stance against this radical way of believing! IMHO!

I can tell you have spend no time with Muslims.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Maybe you have your head in the sand then ... because Islam has declared war against us, the U.S....

I've had more than a few Christian leaders condemn me. Does that mean that Christianity condemns me? All variations of Christians in all denominations and expressions condemns me?

Nonsense.

But terrorism by the radical side of Islam has declared war against us, and if you happen to be where they plan to attack us, they will not spare your life just because you are not at war 'with them!'

Obviously.

You are good at rhetoric, but not at logic.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Are you sure you are not a Quaker or Conservative Mennonite? They have a denominational excuse for believing as you, but, the Islamist will kill even the most peace loving among us, because we claim Jesus as Savior, and not Allah as god. You should consider joining a Quaker sect. Shalom!

You apparently know nothing about Baptist history. Baptists were founding on religious liberty and the separation of church and state. If you don't believe in that, you are not Baptist no matter what you claim.

 

[poncho]

What?

Having knowledge somehow makes one unfit to evaluate opposing opinions and viewpoints?

Wow.

I can tell you have spend no time with Muslims.

What knowledge do you have of Islam itself?

Spending time with Muslims does not make one an expert on Islam.

You apparently know nothing about Baptist history. Baptists were founding on religious liberty and the separation of church and state. If you don't believe in that, you are not Baptist no matter what you claim.

You apparently know nothing of Islam's history. There is no religious freedom under Sharia.

 

[Rippon]

I have mentioned Pam Geller and Bill Warner before. I just got a book by each.
Her book is Stop The Islamization Of America (published in 2011 --even more relevant now.)

Dr. Warner's book is Volume 1 of The Islamic Trilogy : Mohammed And The Unbelievers : The Sira, A Political Biography. (published in 2006 -- read it before attempting to read the Koran)

Both books are very insightful. I would tell any literate Christian to pick up these books. Or, watch youtube videos of both of these individuals. You need to know the facts about Islam.

 

[poncho]

I have mentioned Pam Geller and Bill Warner before. I just got a book by each.
Her book is Stop The Islamization Of America (published in 2011 --even more relevant now.)

Dr. Warner's book is Volume 1 of The Islamic Trilogy : Mohammed And The Unbelievers : The Sira, A Political Biography. (published in 2006 -- read it before attempting to read the Koran)

Both books are very insightful. I would tell any literate Christian to pick up these books. Or, watch youtube videos of both of these individuals. You need to know the facts about Islam.

Notice how everyone goes silent when I ask what knowledge they have of Islam itself?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Spending time with Muslims does not make one an expert on Islam.

I'm not claiming expertise. I'm simply pointing out that if all of Islam were at war with us, we would definitely know it. It wouldn't just be terror incidents here and there... we would have ships and planes full of Muslims headed this way to conquer by any means. The significant Muslim population in the Americas would also be fighting us. That's not happening.

When a statistically significant number of Muslims start attacking the US, then I'll be convinced.

You apparently know nothing of Islam's history. There is no religious freedom under Sharia.

Non sequitur. I was referring to Baptist history, not referring to Islam.

You are saying that I can't hold to core Baptist beliefs anymore because Islam does not have a strong history of religious liberty. That's foolish.

 

[poncho]

 

[Rippon]

When a statistically significant number of Muslims start attacking the US, then I'll be convinced.

You are thinking conventionally. You need to adjust to the reality of asymmetric warfare.

The Muslim population of France is 7.5% and growing. Most of these are men of military age. They
have virtually free reign in France. France's goose is nearly cooked.

The Muslim population of Germany is 5.8%. If its citizens don't develop some backbone pronto --the Saxons will turn into what France has become.

And so it goes for Sweden, Norway, Austria, Denmark, The Netherlands --even Finland and others.

Crime by the Muslims in Europe is rocketing skyward. Terrorism is rife. It's only going to get worse.

Statistically significant may be only 1% or less. In the USA that would be a few million people. But Obama and Hillary want even more to come on in. That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[poncho]

I'm not claiming expertise. I'm simply pointing out that if all of Islam were at war with us, we would definitely know it.

Which goes to prove my point. You don't know what Islam is. Islam has been at war with the Kafirs since Muhammad's Hijra to Medina 1400 years ago. This war has never stopped. It's slowed down at times but it has never stopped.

Bill Warner a real expert on Islam has said "we use a watch to keep time Islam uses a calendar".

It wouldn't just be terror incidents here and there... we would have ships and planes full of Muslims headed this way to conquer by any means. The significant Muslim population in the Americas would also be fighting us. That's not happening.[/QUOTE]

When a statistically significant number of Muslims start attacking the US, then I'll be convinced.


Non sequitur. I was referring to Baptist history, not referring to Islam.

You are saying that I can't hold to core Baptist beliefs anymore because Islam does not have a strong history of religious liberty. That's foolish.[/QUOTE]

I'm not claiming expertise. I'm simply pointing out that if all of Islam were at war with us, we would definitely know it. It wouldn't just be terror incidents here and there... we would have ships and planes full of Muslims headed this way to conquer by any means. The significant Muslim population in the Americas would also be fighting us. That's not happening.

When a statistically significant number of Muslims start attacking the US, then I'll be convinced.


Non sequitur. I was referring to Baptist history, not referring to Islam.

You are saying that I can't hold to core Baptist beliefs anymore because Islam does not have a strong history of religious liberty. That's foolish.

I've already debunked what you're saying with what I have posted already.

 

[Don]

Spending time with Muslims does not make one an expert on Islam.

Does it make one more of an expert than a CNN or Fox News reporter that visited the Middle East once or twice? Or someone who went to Dubai on vacation?

Or someone who studied Islam from reading books, without interacting with any of its followers?

 

[poncho]

Does it make one more of an expert than a CNN or Fox News reporter that visited the Middle East once or twice? Or someone who went to Dubai on vacation?

Or someone who studied Islam from reading books, without interacting with any of its followers?

One only has to get acquainted with one Muslim to understand Islam and that one Muslim is Muhammad.

How well do you know Muhammad Don?

 

[poncho]

The sound of silence . . .

 

[Don]

One only has to get acquainted with one Muslim to understand Islam and that one Muslim is Muhammad.

How well do you know Muhammad Don?

There are allegedly 1 billion catholics on our planet. Most of them have been told that because they're catholic, they know Jesus. How many of them do you think actually know Jesus? And how many go to confession, take communion and say their Hail Mary's on Sunday, and spend the other 6 days doing things they need to go to confession for?

I know of Mohammed, Poncho, just like you do. I also know a lot of his followers. I can show you the ones that ascribe to what Mohammed preached about violence; I can show you the ones that disregard that teaching. I can show you the ones that go to the mosque, and then make lewd jokes about imams the rest of the week. I can show you the one that actually gets on his prayer blanket five times a day, and the other five guys that prefer to dress like westerners and make fun of the one on his prayer blanket.

In other words, Poncho, I'm not defending islam. I'm pointing out that not all people who ascribe to islam are the same -- just like with catholics.

 

[poncho]

I have never said that all the people who to use your word "ascribe" to Islam are the same.

You (like almost everyone else here) seem to be judging Islam by it's followers. I'm judging Islam by it's doctrines. According to the doctrine of Islam those Muslims you speak of who are not modeling their lives on the "perfect Muslim prototype" Muhammad are not Muslims at all.

That's not me saying that Don. That's Muhammad saying that. I don't have a problem with Muslims, I have a problem with Islam because Islam has a problem with me.

I'll repeat that so the people here who want to call me a "racist, bigot, hater . . . Islamophobe" can hear me. . . I don't have a problem with Muslims I have a problem with Islam because Islam has a problem with me.

Islam does not assimilate to other cultures. What's happening in Europe today should be proof enough of that. Not all Jihadis use the sword Don. Some use the pen. Some use speech. Some use money. All of these things can be used as tools of Jihad.

A Muslim doesn't have to chop a Kafir's head off or blow himself up in a shopping mall to be a Jihadi.

 

[Sapper Woody]

The Qur'an is only 14% of the whole Woody. A person can read the Qur'an 100 times and have daily meetings with actual Muslims until Jesus returns and still not know what Islam is. The Qur'an doesn't teach you how to be a Muslim. Did you know that? Did you study the Sunna, the Sira + the Hadith? The biography and traditions of Muhammad? Did you know there are two Muhammads? Did you know there are two Qur'ans in the Qur'an? Do you know what Muslims call other Muslims that are truly friends with a Kafir? Heretics. Do you know that you are a Kafir? Do you know what a Kafir is? Do you know that the ideology of Islam is 3% religion and 97% political?

I don't consider myself xenophobic. A phobia is an irrational fear of something. How is it irrational to fear a political ideology that has been destroying civilizations and subjugating whole populations for 1400 years? What's so fearful about that right?

Are you going to call me un American and un Christian because I look at the current Hijra with suspicion? .

Like I said, I'm not an expert. But I am experienced. Now, I would not die on the mountain if someone were to say that the extremists are the true Muslims and the moderates were not. That's a different debate, one which you would probably win with your (seemingly, to me anyway) better knowledge of the texts of Islam. Judging solely by what you've posted here, there's a good chance that you know more about what the texts say than I do.

However, I have experience with the Muslim people. I know how they are as a group. I know how they are as a culture. (Side note: in the big cities of Afghanistan, the women walk around in jeans and t-shirts. It's only outside the big cities that the women are completely covered). And I know that as a people, taken as a whole, they are more trustworthy than someone who expressed the views that pointed out. And that's saying a lot. The whole culture over there is one of distrust. The culture is based on pocketing a little extra for yourself any time you do a job for someone else.

I would not call you un-American or un-Christian for being suspicious of someone. That's human. What is un-American and un-Christian is the views Judith expressed about keeping all Muslims out, based on the actions of some.

Like I said before, I understand that most, if not all, terrorist activity is being done by Muslims. But, I also know that all the funeral protest that have been done are done by someone with Baptist attached to their name. Does that mean we bar all Baptists from funerals?

 

[Sapper Woody]

...

I took out the quote, as it's unnecessary, off-topic, and reported for outright saying I wasn't saved. No need to respond to it further than that.

 

[poncho]

Like I said, I'm not an expert. But I am experienced. Now, I would not die on the mountain if someone were to say that the extremists are the true Muslims and the moderates were not. That's a different debate, one which you would probably win with your (seemingly, to me anyway) better knowledge of the texts of Islam. Judging solely by what you've posted here, there's a good chance that you know more about what the texts say than I do.

However, I have experience with the Muslim people. I know how they are as a group. I know how they are as a culture. (Side note: in the big cities of Afghanistan, the women walk around in jeans and t-shirts. It's only outside the big cities that the women are completely covered). And I know that as a people, taken as a whole, they are more trustworthy than someone who expressed the views that pointed out. And that's saying a lot. The whole culture over there is one of distrust. The culture is based on pocketing a little extra for yourself any time you do a job for someone else.

I would not call you un-American or un-Christian for being suspicious of someone. That's human. What is un-American and un-Christian is the views Judith expressed about keeping all Muslims out, based on the actions of some.

Like I said before, I understand that most, if not all, terrorist activity is being done by Muslims. But, I also know that all the funeral protest that have been done are done by someone with Baptist attached to their name. Does that mean we bar all Baptists from funerals?

Like I said I'm not judging Islam by it's followers, I'm judging Islam by it's doctrines. Having been studying those doctrines for the last few months I now understand that blowing people up or cutting their heads off with a sword is only one way Jihad is waged against the Kafirs.

Jihad can be very subtle. Like Bill Warner says one can be a Jihadi by writing a letter to the editor of a newspaper. Or the Mayor of London banning pictures of women dressed in bikinis in the subway. Or say giving 25 million dollars to the Clinton Foundation. Or publishing textbooks that only teach half truths about Islam.

The goal of Islam is to bring the world under Sharia law. You being a warrior should understand there are many ways to wage war upon one's enemies without killing them. We're already under Sharia law in this country, to a certain extent. A good example of that is how the media handles the news about the terror attacks that take place here.

 

[Internet Theologian]

You are thinking conventionally. You need to adjust to the reality of asymmetric warfare.

The Muslim population of France is 7.5% and growing. Most of these are men of military age. They
have virtually free reign in France. France's goose is nearly cooked.

The Muslim population of Germany is 5.8%. If its citizens don't develop some backbone pronto --the Saxons will turn into what France has become.

And so it goes for Sweden, Norway, Austria, Denmark, The Netherlands --even Finland and others.

Crime by the Muslims in Europe is rocketing skyward. Terrorism is rife. It's only going to get worse.

Statistically significant may be only 1% or less. In the USA that would be a few million people. But Obama and Hillary want even more to come on in. That's a recipe for disaster.

...and these are the people that some say they would rather be friends with than believers.