Was Jesus human like us or a different kind of human?

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps we could look at a few other issues to help.

For example, it has been suggested that Jesus had to be born of a virgin in order to avoid this "sin nature". This suggests that sin is a biological issue rather than a response to temptation based on the desires of the flesh (James 1). Are there any passages that suggest sin is passed down genetically? Scripture speaks of the wicked as being of their father the Devil. Does this mean Satan or his demons actually fathered children (i.e., was Daniel Parker right)?

So the nature of sin needs to be explored (is it an act of the will in disobedience to God or is it a genetic predisposition passed down biologically).

Also, what we are referring to as "nature" needs to be addressed. Perhaps the reason this "sin nature" is foreign to Scripture is how the term is used (Scripture only refers to the "flesh" and the "spirit"). Maybe it is an issue of definitions.

mankind is born with a self reliant will, a nature that wantsto have its own way and to sin and disobey God.
Jesus never had that aspect as part of His humanity.
You seem to be getting hung up on the fact that Jesus was fully human like us, and yet had no sin nature in Him at same time!
Virgin Birth is way for Him to avoid corruption from the fall...

 

[JonC]

You misunderstand, I wasn't denying His humanity, I was pointing out that He was not just human, lol.




And that is the one point brought up in the other threads on this issue, it makes no sense to think that what Christ came to do could have somehow been jeopardized by His actions, lol.

There was never, not while He was alive, nor in eternity past, the chance that Christ would succumb to temptations. That He can have compassion on us is one thing, but, that He could have somehow yielded to temptation is contrary to the Nature of God.


God bless.

Ah....sorry for the misunderstanding.

Whether or not Jesus could have yielded to temptation (whether it was in his power) is perhaps hypothetical. We know Jesus petitioned the Father to avoid the cross if another way was possible, but we also know he yielded his will to the will of the Father.

 

[Yeshua1]

can God ever sin?

 

[HankD]

An infant is born a sinner, given enough time it will do what comes naturally.

Some apple trees don't bear apples for several years after planting.

But whether it bears fruit or not it is still an apple tree.

 

[Yeshua1]

An infant is born a sinner, given enough time it will do what comes naturally.

Some apple trees don't bear apples for several years after planting.

But whether it bears fruit or not it is still an apple tree.

Babies from the get go are selfish!

 

[Darrell C]

Ah....sorry for the misunderstanding.

Whether or not Jesus could have yielded to temptation (whether it was in his power) is perhaps hypothetical. We know Jesus petitioned the Father to avoid the cross if another way was possible, but we also know he yielded his will to the will of the Father.

I don't view "Let this cup pass from me" as a request to not go to the Cross, again, it makes little sense that He would falter at the last minute, when previously He made it clear that is what He came to do:

John 12:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.


I view it in the sense of "Let this be the time for me...to get it done."


Matthew 26:39-42
King James Version (KJV)

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.


"Let this cup be behind Me."

"Let your will...be done, finished."

But I know that is the oddball perspective so I don't really try too hard to convince people. You either see it or you don't. But I think if we look at the popular understanding and contrast that to His statements which show He intended to perform the will of God (in regards to man's Redemption) we will see a contradiction.


John 18:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?


I don't think He is going to ask of God something that He has clarified already.


God bless.

 

[HankD]

I believe He did ask for another way to save the human race.
There wasn't so He did what He had to do. Was not sin

 

[JonC]

I don't view "Let this cup pass from me" as a request to not go to the Cross, again, it makes little sense that He would falter at the last minute, when previously He made it clear that is what He came to do:

John 12:27-28
King James Version (KJV)

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.


I view it in the sense of "Let this be the time for me...to get it done."


Matthew 26:39-42
King James Version (KJV)

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.


"Let this cup be behind Me."

"Let your will...be done, finished."

But I know that is the oddball perspective so I don't really try too hard to convince people. You either see it or you don't. But I think if we look at the popular understanding and contrast that to His statements which show He intended to perform the will of God (in regards to man's Redemption) we will see a contradiction.


John 18:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?


I don't think He is going to ask of God something that He has clarified already.


God bless.

I agree that Jesus knew "for this I came". But at the same time I believe that Jesus knew of the suffering and pain he would experience. I think it important that he didn't pray "let this cup pass", but rather that if there was another way (i.e., in his flesh Christ did was not "happy" about being beaten and nailed to a cross). But Jesus remained obedient, even to the death on a cross.

This is an example to us all. Just as we have desires of the flesh (just as Jesus had a desire not to feel the nails pierce his hands and feet) we have to submit our desires to the desire of the Father.

 

[JonShaff]

Babies from the get go are selfish!

While I've been told that my entire (albeit short) Christian life, I do not find scripture that validates that claim. While it is obvious they are totally helpless and very needy--Crying to help parents know there is something that needs their attention is not exactly "selfish". And to be more specific, the Bible Paints the Children with a Different picture.

 

[Yeshua1]

While I've been told that my entire (albeit short) Christian life, I do not find scripture that validates that claim. While it is obvious they are totally helpless and very needy--Crying to help parents know there is something that needs their attention is not exactly "selfish". And to be more specific, the Bible Paints the Children with a Different picture.

Children are conceived in sin, and are born with sin natures!

 

[Baptist Believer]

And before sin and the fall, was no death, so jesus being liek the First Adam before the fall, would have lived on!

If that premise is true, why was the "tree of life" in the garden in the first place, and why was the LORD God so concerned about preventing the man and woman from eating of it in their sinful condition and living forever? (Genesis 2:9 and 3:22)

Scripture teaches that the tree of life bears "twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Revelation 22:2)

 

[Yeshua1]

If that premise is true, why was the "tree of life" in the garden in the first place, and why was the LORD God so concerned about preventing the man and woman from eating of it in their sinful condition and living forever? (Genesis 2:9 and 3:22)

Scripture teaches that the tree of life bears "twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." (Revelation 22:2)

There was no death in creation until sin entered into it...

 

[Darrell C]

There was no death in creation until sin entered into it...

The "death" that entered the world was separation from God.

There is no Biblical basis to think that animals, insects, or marine life lived forever.

The tree of life did not give men eternal life, only Christ can bestow that upon men by immersing themselves into Himself. We will have eternal life prior to entering the Eternal State, where we again find the tree of life.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I agree that Jesus knew "for this I came". But at the same time I believe that Jesus knew of the suffering and pain he would experience. I think it important that he didn't pray "let this cup pass", but rather that if there was another way (i.e., in his flesh Christ did was not "happy" about being beaten and nailed to a cross). But Jesus remained obedient, even to the death on a cross.

This is an example to us all. Just as we have desires of the flesh (just as Jesus had a desire not to feel the nails pierce his hands and feet) we have to submit our desires to the desire of the Father.

And that is how most will view it, I do not:

John 12:27
King James Version (KJV)

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.


I would see a contradiction of sorts with the Lord instructing His disciples on a matter then reversing Himself, and doing that which the question posed above demands a negative response to.

I think the burden of taking on humanity was a far more painful experience, and more prolonged, than the death of the Cross and the suffering associated with it.

I think the Lord had had His fill of humanity. That is really quite understandable.


God bless.

 

[JonC]

And that is how most will view it, I do not:

John 12:27
King James Version (KJV)

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.


I would see a contradiction of sorts with the Lord instructing His disciples on a matter then reversing Himself, and doing that which the question posed above demands a negative response to.

I think the burden of taking on humanity was a far more painful experience, and more prolonged, than the death of the Cross and the suffering associated with it.

I think the Lord had had His fill of humanity. That is really quite understandable.


God bless.

I think there is perhaps not a contradiction but a dichotomy between the flesh and spirit. I believe Jesus shared in this but, unlike us, without sin as he remained submissive and obedient to God.

 

[HankD]

If that premise is true, why was the "tree of life" in the garden in the first place, and why was the LORD God so concerned about preventing the man and woman from eating of it in their sinful condition and living forever? (Genesis 2:9 and 3:22)
(Revelation 22:2)

There are at least 3 deaths.

 

[Darrell C]

There are at least 3 deaths.

Could you be a little more specific?


God bless.

 

[HankD]

We are different in our humanity to Jesus:
1) We did not preexist our earthly birth.
2) We were not conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of a virgin.

 

[HankD]

Could you be a little more specific?

Do your own research. That way you will remember.

 

[Darrell C]

Do your own research. That way you will remember.

Sure, Hank.


God bless.