Was Jimmy Carter right?

[Timsings]

You have a choice Tim. You can follow me around the board stressing over this or you can ignore my posts.

There's no stress here, Rev. And, I'm not following you around. I actually only look a few of the fora on the BB, and I follow only the few threads that interest me. I am now in a position where I do not feel it to be necessary to remain silent when people are slapped with labels in an attempt to belittle them or their views without any effort to speak to those views on their merit (or their lack thereof). So, you can continue to slap the "liberal" label on the things you don't agree with, and, when I stumble across them, I'll call your hand. Enjoy your weekend. I hope your services go well tomorrow. Tomorrow our new Associate Pastor is preaching. He was recently promoted from Minister to Youth. Today, I'm going to celebrations for two of our church members. We have a friend's wedding this afternoon. She's in her mid-50's and has not been married before. This evening we're going to a 75th birthday party for a woman we met when she and my wife worked together. Later her family moved their membership to our church. I think you'd like her. She's a real character.

Tim Reynolds

 

[Revmitchell]

I am now in a position where I do not feel it to be necessary to remain silent when people are slapped with labels in an attempt to belittle them or their views without any effort to speak to those views on their merit (or their lack thereof). So, you can continue to slap the "liberal" label on the things you don't agree with, and, when I stumble across them, I'll call your hand.

Good luck with that.

 

[windcatcher]

Just who is it that opposes drilling anywhere?

Just who is it that opposes creating more refineries?

Just who is it that opposes nuke plants?

The big oil companies oppose drilling: I posted once how the Rockefellar's in the 19th century gained much control of the oil by undermining the competition..... but no one wants to read.

(I'm not directing this personally at you, Rev, 'cause methinks you already have some answers.... but people who don't will read the questions and then go on complaining OR buying the lies which they've been sold, instead of taking responsibility to be informed.)

I posted how the funding for what are regarded as the most highly acclaimed of the environmental research groups, which function as resource authorities for the politically active environmental groups....... were funded by the wealth of the Rockefellers, Henry Ford etc: Fund research, agendize and direct the science and the scientist who's well paid positions and prestige is requires they give 'authority' to representative data which they purposely design to skew and agree with corporate agenda, fund the publishing of 'scientific journals' which censor all disputing articles except for the mildest or lame opposition to make a token appearance of being broad minded.....It doesn't take much imagination to understand how this structure can actually work (through populace opinion, activist groups and legislation) to control the availability of oil and to selectively limit the challenges from competition of smaller industry and financial groups to break the control of the big oil cartel.

The oil giants have used their leverage of influence and monies and associated businesses and industry to lobby in prohibitive regulations and controls to create obstacles to competition: all the while, they and their lawyering are sheilded from the very transparancy of law and its demands by which they 'oppress' their competitors.

We have all the oil we need. IT IS A LIE THAT THERE EXISTS AN OIL SHORTAGE! Anyone who has enough money, and can get the permits to build and install storage tanks of significant quantity, can purchase enough gasoline or oil to fill it/them, providing he is willing to pay the market price. Sure, one may see a particular grade of fuel.... or a station with its pumps closed, due to delays in transportation or distribution or failure to order...... but, if there was an oil shortage.... we would see rationing...not merely closed pumps or long lines for 'cheap' gas. .......It is possible that this next step....... controlling the access as in the 70's, or rationing, may happen...... but, good people, it will be a ruse; it will be a lie perpetuated on you by those in control to make you fearful that there is a shortage.

God has provided everything we need and more than we could ask for on this earth. We just don't believe Him! If we did, we wouldn't sell out so quickly to the lies of oil shortage, population control, CO2 gases. He who owns the cattle on a thousand hills..... is not believed by mankind, that He has provided for us everything we could ever need in abundance. I hope to post on this board, notes taken from interesting remarks I heard on a jewish program recently (not pertaining to the subject of oil). The figures, if true, are astonishing.

As for Jimmy Carter? He should have remained a peanut farmer.... and a promoter of Habitat for Humanity. He and his consorts completed the undermining of the Shaw of Iran. He foolishlly promoted (by failure to support the Shaw) a government ruled there by a 'religious man'. Like our own current President..... (and Billy Graham, and others who accept the 'brotherhood' of monotheism without considering the sigularity of salvation through Jesus, who, himself declared, " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ) poor Jimmy, ignorantly and by omission, heralded in the religious ruler of Iran, and thought he could used diplomacy with the Aatollayh (sp?) but got bit in the butt when American hostages were taken. His attitude towards Israel and the Palestinians stinks!..... That is my sensory perception ....to each his own regarding the facts.

 

[JustChristian]

The big oil companies oppose drilling: I posted once how the Rockefellar's in the 19th century gained much control of the oil by undermining the competition..... but no one wants to read.

(I'm not directing this personally at you, Rev, 'cause methinks you already have some answers.... but people who don't will read the questions and then go on complaining OR buying the lies which they've been sold, instead of taking responsibility to be informed.)

I posted how the funding for what are regarded as the most highly acclaimed of the environmental research groups, which function as resource authorities for the politically active environmental groups....... were funded by the wealth of the Rockefellers, Henry Ford etc: Fund research, agendize and direct the science and the scientist who's well paid positions and prestige is requires they give 'authority' to representative data which they purposely design to skew and agree with corporate agenda, fund the publishing of 'scientific journals' which censor all disputing articles except for the mildest or lame opposition to make a token appearance of being broad minded.....It doesn't take much imagination to understand how this structure can actually work (through populace opinion, activist groups and legislation) to control the availability of oil and to selectively limit the challenges from competition of smaller industry and financial groups to break the control of the big oil cartel.

The oil giants have used their leverage of influence and monies and associated businesses and industry to lobby in prohibitive regulations and controls to create obstacles to competition: all the while, they and their lawyering are sheilded from the very transparancy of law and its demands by which they 'oppress' their competitors.

We have all the oil we need. IT IS A LIE THAT THERE EXISTS AN OIL SHORTAGE! Anyone who has enough money, and can get the permits to build and install storage tanks of significant quantity, can purchase enough gasoline or oil to fill it/them, providing he is willing to pay the market price. Sure, one may see a particular grade of fuel.... or a station with its pumps closed, due to delays in transportation or distribution or failure to order...... but, if there was an oil shortage.... we would see rationing...not merely closed pumps or long lines for 'cheap' gas. .......It is possible that this next step....... controlling the access as in the 70's, or rationing, may happen...... but, good people, it will be a ruse; it will be a lie perpetuated on you by those in control to make you fearful that there is a shortage.

God has provided everything we need and more than we could ask for on this earth. We just don't believe Him! If we did, we wouldn't sell out so quickly to the lies of oil shortage, population control, CO2 gases. He who owns the cattle on a thousand hills..... is not believed by mankind, that He has provided for us everything we could ever need in abundance. I hope to post on this board, notes taken from interesting remarks I heard on a jewish program recently (not pertaining to the subject of oil). The figures, if true, are astonishing.

As for Jimmy Carter? He should have remained a peanut farmer.... and a promoter of Habitat for Humanity. He and his consorts completed the undermining of the Shaw of Iran. He foolishlly promoted (by failure to support the Shaw) a government ruled there by a 'religious man'. Like our own current President..... (and Billy Graham, and others who accept the 'brotherhood' of monotheism without considering the sigularity of salvation through Jesus, who, himself declared, " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ) poor Jimmy, ignorantly and by omission, heralded in the religious ruler of Iran, and thought he could used diplomacy with the Aatollayh (sp?) but got bit in the butt when American hostages were taken. His attitude towards Israel and the Palestinians stinks!..... That is my sensory perception ....to each his own regarding the facts.

You're a bit confused or misdirected. The Shah of Iran was a dictator just as bas as Hussein.

 

[windcatcher]

You're a bit confused or misdirected. The Shah of Iran was a dictator just as bas as Hussein.

I didn't say he wasn't a dictator....
Nor did I say he was good or that his government was corruption free......but what else is new?

However we were on 'friendly terms' with Iran before he was deposed.

And we did nothing to support stability in his country....in fact the opposite.....and, when he was exiled and dying he was treated like a pox in Carters attempt to make friends with the new regime. Religious people often make assumptions regarding the 'virtues' of other religious people and when relationships are attempted based upon false assumptions, often find themselves surprised that the consequences are not what they planned or supposed.

The new regime was religious, and often we foolishly project our own values and beliefs upon those we have little acquaintance with and assume/presume upon them the virtuous characteristics which we ourselves value and believe we possess. When we trust others not out of knowledge but by false assumptions we make bad choices.... in government ......in life.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You're a bit confused or misdirected. The Shah of Iran was a dictator just as bas as Hussein.

Really ? Just how many did he kill ? Remember, you made the claim. I'm not sticking up for anyone, but I'd like to know how well informed you are, concerning American & Iranian relations.

 

[JustChristian]

I didn't say he wasn't a dictator....
Nor did I say he was good or that his government was corruption free......but what else is new?

However we were on 'friendly terms' with Iran before he was deposed.

And we did nothing to support stability in his country....in fact the opposite.....and, when he was exiled and dying he was treated like a pox in Carters attempt to make friends with the new regime. Religious people often make assumptions regarding the 'virtues' of other religious people and when relationships are attempted based upon false assumptions, often find themselves surprised that the consequences are not what they planned or supposed.

The new regime was religious, and often we foolishly project our own values and beliefs upon those we have little acquaintance with and assume/presume upon them the virtuous characteristics which we ourselves value and believe we possess. When we trust others not out of knowledge but by false assumptions we make bad choices.... in government ......in life.

If you accept one dictator why support a war to topple another oner?

 

[windcatcher]

If you accept one dictator why support a war to topple another oner?

You just said that.

Why don't you tell me?

 

[JustChristian]

Really ? Just how many did he kill ? Remember, you made the claim. I'm not sticking up for anyone, but I'd like to know how well informed you are, concerning American & Iranian relations.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/8603

Amnesty International has put the number of Iranian political prisoners between 25,000-100,000. Liz Thurgood, reporting from Tehran in The Manchester Guardian Weekly, has said: "Despite repeated denials by the regime, many Iranians still believe the number of political prisoners to be about 60,000."

I appeal to all Americans to raise their voices against the Shah's brutal repression of the people of Iran, and against this hopeless lack of communication resulting from the blind arrogance of the Iranian regime. We demand unconditional amnesty for all the political prisoners of the Shah. We specifically demand explanations on the fates of Vida Hadjebi Tabirizi, Atefeh Gorgin, and Dr. Sa'edi, one of Iran's most talented contemporary writers.


The Shah used imprisonment and torture to maintain power. Amnesty International estimated the Shah's political prisoners at 60,000 to 100,000 in number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi

His brutal secret police force, SAVAK, managed by the CIA, was designed to control all aspects of political life in Iran. It suppressed opposition to the Shah’s government and kept the people’s political knowledge as minimal as possible. Its interrogation office used horrific torture tools and techniques to break dissenters while its censorship office prohibited books and monitored students, journalists, unions, and academics throughout the country.

http://jamesptaylor.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/iran-another-old-friend/

 

[windcatcher]

So?

You haven't proven that he wasn't being manipulated by the West.
You've have documented that there was Western influence and involvement: May I dare suggest, the involvement went beyond "His brutal secret police force, SAVAK, managed by the CIA, was designed to control all aspects of political life[/]b in Iran." That "It suppressed opposition to the Shah’s government and kept the people’s political knowledge as minimal as possible." is not a statement of transparency: more like a code for covert operations which fomented confusion of information, inflamed particular interest to draw out opposition and identity leaders among the people, so they could be manipulated or, barring that, targeted as their were deemed useless beyond creating and manipulating the Shah's fears; and demonstrating, by their oppression, the fear of powerlessness among the people.

 

[JustChristian]

So?

You haven't proven that he wasn't being manipulated by the West.
You've have documented that there was Western influence and involvement: May I dare suggest, the involvement went beyond "His brutal secret police force, SAVAK, managed by the CIA, was designed to control all aspects of political life[/]b in Iran." That "It suppressed opposition to the Shah’s government and kept the people’s political knowledge as minimal as possible." is not a statement of transparency: more like a code for covert operations which fomented confusion of information, inflamed particular interest to draw out opposition and identity leaders among the people, so they could be manipulated or, barring that, targeted as their were deemed useless beyond creating and manipulating the Shah's fears; and demonstrating, by their oppression, the fear of powerlessness among the people.

I didn't set out to prove that the Shah was manipulated by the U.S. but I did state that. Osama bin Laden was manipulated by the U.S. both openly during the Afghan-Russian was and covertly since then.