Was Judas ever saved

[Accountable]

1. I'm in no position to tell you what to look for in a parable.

2. But I propose to you that the younger and his return is the focal point of this parable, for it fits with the others that focused on retrieving or reclaiming.

3. In Jesus' own words, "It was necessary to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found." This verse ends the story on the son who was lost, not the elder brother.

I will not argue the importance of this parable, I believe the theme does say a lot.
My point is that I do not stop reading when I think God is done talking. I know he is done when he finishes. In this case he pointa out the relationship between the father and elder brother. Why? Because there is something more to it. Something very important to see. Do you not agree? I have read too many of your threads to believe that youo think that Jesus was just mumbling away.

 

[TCGreek]

I will not argue the importance of this parable, I believe the theme does say a lot.
My point is that I do not stop reading when I think God is done talking. I know he is done when he finishes. In this case he pointa out the relationship between the father and elder brother. Why? Because there is something more to it. Something very important to see. Do you not agree? I have read too many of your threads to believe that youo think that Jesus was just mumbling away.

1. We must read the entire parable, but I think it will be wrong to try and take every line to try and make some application.

2. The setting of this parable has already been laid (vv.1, 2).

3. If anything, according to most commentators that I've consulted over the years, the older brother could be referring to the Pharisees of v.2.

4. But to take every line apart and look for some meaning, I don't think that is the aim of any parable. Then I must ask, "Who is the citizen in that far country?"

 

[Hope of Glory]

3. If anything, according to most commentators that I've consulted over the years, the older brother could be referring to the Pharisees of v.2.

Well, I certainly can agree with that. I would probably say anyone who is phariseeical (sp?), but it was directed that them specifically. In the family and righteous, but... And it's a big "but".

 

[skypair]

So, in this parable then, Jesus presents a lie, because the son is perishing, and he apparently was incapable of perishing.

You don't handle parables well, do you HoG? You needn't equate "perishing" in a parable with spiritual perishing -- he thought he was physically dying if he continued where he was.

So I suppose you have written yet another parable off as having any validity besides yours.

skypair

 

[lbaker]

Context is SO important in understanding what someone is talkiing about in scripture. Here is the context for the parables in this section, including the one about the two sons:

1Now the tax collectors and "sinners" were all gathering around to hear him. 2But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

The parables begin right after this and are Jesus' rebuttal to the Pharisees and teachers.

Here is the how the Pharisees responded to the parables, from Luke 16:

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

They got the point, and knew just who Jesus was talking about.

Les

 

[MB]

Was Judas ever saved? Can you explain why or why not and provide scripture to show your view?
Thank you

If Judas had been saved he wouldn't have commited suicide. You see Christians are at peace with God and have no desire to punish them selves.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
How can someone be so stressed out over what they did if they had repented and been forgiven?.
MB

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If Judas had been saved he wouldn't have commited suicide. You see Christians are at peace with God and have no desire to punish them selves.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
How can someone be so stressed out over what they did if they had repented and been forgiven?.
MB

Great answer, MB!

 

[Hope of Glory]

If Judas had been saved he wouldn't have commited suicide. You see Christians are at peace with God and have no desire to punish them selves.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
How can someone be so stressed out over what they did if they had repented and been forgiven?.
MB

So, our spiritual salvation is determined by our works?

Just how many bad works do we need to prove that we're unsaved?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

One work can prove a person is unsaved for sure...

Intentionally lying about the Word of God.

 

[Hope of Glory]

One work can prove a person is unsaved for sure...

Intentionally lying about the Word of God.

So, I wonder if it's against the rules to call yourself unsaved? Nah. They let you get away with calling others unsaved, so you can go ahead and call yourself unsaved, I'm sure.

Now, the questions were actually intended for MB, as I was hoping he would actually answer with something besides drivel.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HoG,

Prove us wrong. Post Scripture that emphatically shows without a doubt that the saved will spend a thousand years in outer darkness or hell as you and others of your ilk claim. Otherwise, admit you were lying all along.

It is quite obvious that you can't produce the Scripture to back your claim, and you won't admit you were lying about the saved spending a thousand years in outer darkness or hell.

 

[Accountable]

If Judas had been saved he wouldn't have commited suicide. You see Christians are at peace with God and have no desire to punish them selves.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
How can someone be so stressed out over what they did if they had repented and been forgiven?.
MB

I can't believe I am even reading this...Have you ever read the account of Ahithophel from II Samuel?

Ahithophel was the counselor of King David. The Bible records this about his testimony:

[B]2Sa 16:23 [/B] And the counsel of Ahithophel, which he counselled in those days, was as if a man had enquired at the oracle of God: so was all the counsel of Ahithophel both with David and with Absalom.

Because of bitterness, Ahithophel saught to help Absalom kill David. When this did no happen. the Bible records the following event:

2Sa 17:23 And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his ass, and arose, and gat him home to his house, to his city, and put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died, and was buried in the sepulchre of his father.

What are we to say about Ahithophel?

 

[Accountable]

Great answer, MB!

I must say, you are a good cheerleader!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I can't believe I am even reading this...Have you ever read the account of Ahithophel from II Samuel?

Ahithophel was the counselor of King David. The Bible records this about his testimony:

[B]2Sa 16:23 [/b] And the counsel of Ahithophel, which he counselled in those days, was as if a man had enquired at the oracle of God: so was all the counsel of Ahithophel both with David and with Absalom.

Because of bitterness, Ahithophel saught to help Absalom kill David. When this did no happen. the Bible records the following event:

2Sa 17:23 And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his ass, and arose, and gat him home to his house, to his city, and put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died, and was buried in the sepulchre of his father.

What are we to say about Ahithophel?

It does not say Ahithophel got his counsel from God... it says 'as if'. Ahithophel proved he did not have peace with God when he hung himself.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I must say you need to learn to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

 

[Accountable]

It does not say Ahithophel got his counsel from God... it says 'as if'. Ahithophel proved he did not have peace with God when he hung himself.

Wow! You need to write a book! You are throwing out "new revelation"that I have never seen written by any other. Could you add an appendix with a list of all the no-no's that we cannot do to truly be saved by Grace through faith? I'm sorry, you believe otherwise. Add a list of what we cannot do to be saved by belief works. Before you lead anyone to Christ, do you show them the law in which they must abide by to truly be saved? Sounds like you like to hang around the tree of the knowledge of good and evil instead of the tree of life for your wisdom concerning spiritual salvation.

 

[Accountable]

It does not say Ahithophel got his counsel from God... it says 'as if'. Ahithophel proved he did not have peace with God when he hung himself.

If God had written that "it was God" instead of "as if God," we would have a 4 part God. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, and god Ahithophel.

God knew what He was saying and said it correctly. Too bad you want to twist it to teach corruption.

 

[Cutter]

How can someone be saved apart from the shed blood of Christ. The following scriptures occurred before the crucifixion.

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;.

His apostleship and ministry were by appointment not because he was saved.
He fell from these positions.

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Also look at the last verse where Matthias is listed as being numbered with the twelve. If you believe scripture then he became part of 12 apostles. In the following verse there is no mention of 13 apostles.

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

So if Matthias became the 12th apostle, Judas was excluded and as the Bible states, he went to his own place. Sure wasn't heaven.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Thread closed and Kay (originator of the thread) is asked to refrain from posting in BAPTIST-ONLY areas.