was Judas Iscariot ever saved

[Sherrie]

Brother Glen

This has been an interesting topic. One that I have wondered a lot of times myself. But I find it even more confusing after reading everyones post.

If it were according to Gods plan....wouldn't Judas who did leave and do it; have been obedient to this plan of Gods'. And Jesus did dismiss him to go do the deed.

I wonder if this was an act of obedience. One maybe that Judas had no control over. Maybe it was not a fleshly act. Maybe we could look at it like this was what Judas was created for.

There was an act of repentence when Judas threw the coins in a field.

Now I am confused because of him hanging himself. I have always been taught that suicide was wrong. Can we commit suicide and still go to Heaven?

And why didn't one of the other disciples question where Judas was going? Why didn't they say something like "Hey Judas where you going?" Or "Hey Judas just left! He isn't turning Jesus in is he?" or "Hey Jesus, why is he leaving?"

I really think there was no choice in this matter. Jesus decided which one it should be. I believe Jesus had a meeting with Satan and said something like "no not Peter, and no leave John alone, ok use Judas." So then all was according to a plan. Not an earthly plan. But a spiritual plan. So in this case Judas was according to Gods' plan. But was the hanging forgiveable? what was the conversation Judas had with God right before he hung himself?

This is what is confusing to me.
Sherrie

 

[tyndale1946]

Sherrie said:

Can we commit suicide and still go to Heaven?

I'v heard this time and time again but if someone says it let them back it up with scripture. I've found no scripture that says the person that takes their own life is hellbound!

When Jesus made the comment the one that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin... He was speaking in reference to his Father! I believe God allowed it to happen because many time when they could have gotten Jesus he slipped through their hands. His time was not yet!

John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

54 Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews; but went thence unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued with his disciples.

55 And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out of the country up to Jerusalem before the passover, to purify themselves.

56 Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves, as they stood in the temple, What think ye, that he will not come to the feast?

57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him... Gods divine hand of protection and providence was on Jesus and when the hour came he was delivered by Gods own determinate counsel!... That's the way I understand it!

II Kings 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

John Gill one of the commentators I read was commenting that this is the power of one angel... Now hear what Jesus says... Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?... All this was carried out according to the WILL the PURPOSE and the PLAN of Almighty God! My little finite mortal mind cannot explain nor comprehend it!... AMEN!... Brother Glen

 

[Sherrie]

Thank you bro. Glen. I think this only strengthens my own opinion that he is in Heaven with God as we speak.

Sherrie

 

[Jeff Weaver]

Sherrie said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can we commit suicide and still go to Heaven?
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I'v heard this time and time again but if someone says it let them back it up with scripture. I've found no scripture that says the person that takes their own life is hellbound!

I have to agree with Glen, there is no scripture of which I am aware that would automatically condemn a suicide to eternal punishment. A great many mentally ill individuals have gentle spirits, but when those brain chemical misbehave no telling what they will do, and I don't think that they are capable of knowing right from wrong in those times. They will be judged on the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ if they have had a new birth and nothing else.

Jeff

 

[calvin777]

No way, was he saved, and we can know that. The disciples said his soul was given over to satan. God does not give the souls of the elect over to Satan. Plus, he commited suicide because he felt bad because he took the life of an inocent man. Not because he took the life of the Son of God. I think Judas only look at Chirst as a great man who would fight against the Romans.

 

[Sherrie]

calvin777

God does not give the souls of the elect over to Satan.

um....what elect?

another example:

Pharohs' heart was soft while in front of Moses, and then hardened when Moses would leave. Several times! The Bible specificly says it was for the glory of God.

There were things that were not controlable at the time of Jesus arrest. Peter denied Jesus. A sword cut the ear of one of the guards...and then placed back on by Jesus. Other disciples deny Jesus, and others hide.

Plus, he commited suicide because he felt bad because he took the life of an inocent man. Not because he took the life of the Son of God

Sir, I do believe Judas knew exactly who Jesus was. I believe if we never knew who Jesus was; in His presence, we would lay humbled at His feet, and not in control of anything. Daniel gives an example when visited by Him.

Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible:

Daniel 10: 8,9

8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.
9 Yet heard I the voice of His words: then was I in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground.

It was for Gods' glory and plan that all this was fullfilled. Not for Judas' glory to back-stab and sell out a normal everyday man.

Sherrie

 

[calvin777]

With all do respect, I have no idea what your point was.

 

[Rev. G]

Judas Iscariot was the "son of perdition." He was NEVER truly saved. Though he "repented" (much like Esau - although neither was justified in the sight of God), this was not a repentance with godly sorrow unto salvation. Judas went the way he desired, and the way it was destined for him to go.

Rev. G

 

[calvin777]

Amen

 

[M Wickens]

Why did Judas betray Christ and not one of the others? In all likelyhood the devil tempted all the apostles until finding a willing candidate in Judas. Remember Jesus told Peter that Satan wanted to "sift" him "as wheat". (Luke 22:31)

When Pharaoh hardened his heart then, and only then, did God begin to harden his heart. When a person rejects God then he opens himself up to be used of GOd to fulfill His purposes. I bleieve this is what Judas did.

Could Judas be in Heaven? Doubtful. The Scriptures call him the son of perdition. (John 17:12) In this verse Jesus Himself says that Judas was "lost". Unless I am misinterpreting that verse Judas is not in Heaven.

 

[Ulsterman]

The Lord chose him knowing that he was a "devil" - John 6:70-71. In the upper room, as He washed the disciple’s feet Jesus said “He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.” (John 13:10-11). John 12:1-6
describes Judas as a thief, the Greek term being “kleptes” from which we get the word kleptomaniac that is, one who steal by impulse.

An unclean, thieving, devil - hardly descriptive of a redeemed man. Judas' presence in the apostolic band does not prove he was saved, but rather that it is possible to be in very close proximity to the Saviour without possessing salvation. It shows us that you cannot judge a person’s spiritual state by his associations. Being one of the disciples is not the same, necessarily, as being saved, anymore than being a Baptist or a church member automatically equates with being saved. Judas was not saved.

 

[John Wells]

Acts 1:24-25 (NIV)
24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.”

John 6:70 (NIV)
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

John 17:12 (NIV)
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Once again, scripture speaks for itself, so that I need add nothing.

 

[Rev. G]

M. Wickens:

The reason Judas was the one who betrayed Christ was because he was the 'son of perdition' who was appointed to do this thing. He did it of his own free will, and he did it according the plan that God had foreordained. None of the other apostles did it because they were not appointed to this - they were "elect". Take a look in the Gospel of John to see this.

Sherrie: I would recommend that you read St. John as well. Judas was a "thief" from the beginning, and used to steal from the disciples' treasury. The Apostle tells us this to point out that Judas' heart was always corrupt, and had never been changed by grace.

Rev. G

 

[janji]

quote: "Don't forget that Scripture calls Judas a devil. Also, Jesus excused him before the Lord's supper."

Jesus also called Peter Satan. See: Matthew 16:23

 

[Sherrie]

Rev G,

Sherrie: I would recommend that you read St. John as well. Judas was a "thief" from the beginning, and used to steal from the disciples' treasury. The Apostle tells us this to point out that Judas' heart was always corrupt, and had never been changed by grace.

Rev. G

I am not saying he is or isn't. What I am doing is openly saying I am very confused because both sides have made excellent points. I am wondering....which I have not been given any straight answer is....isn't it possible that he could be in Heaven? If all that he did was according to a plan that God had made....creating Judas for this very purpose...couldn't it be possible. In fact couldn't Judas have actually been obedient to God and His plan. I think it is wrong to say Judas just thought Jesus was a normal everyday guy. I do not believe that. Satan knows who Jesus is. In John 13:2 it says that Satan went into Judas. Not until supper was over. And before that in v1 Jesus knew it was His hour come.

Did he wash Judas feet?
Did Peter have control over saying he knew Jesus and denying Him?
Was a miracle performed as well as forgiveness in the middle of Jesus arrest?
Did Judas realize what he did and try to give back the coins?
Were demons ever cast out of someone by Jesus, and they were forgiven of there sins?
Who does the Bible say cannot be saved?
Does God have a plan?
Whose pleasure were we created for?

I did read John. and evidently I am not the only one who is confused. There are plenty posting here. What solid evidence is there, that says Judas did not go to Heaven. Doesn't it say the only sin unforgiveable is Blaspheme (Mark 3:28,29).

I do not think Blaspheme is what Judas did. I also believe that Judas did repent. I am not sure again, about the suicide part. And I could not find any scripture about that at all.

So sir I did read John. I did pray about it. And perhaps this thread will bring the truth to the surface, or perhaps we are really not suppose to know.

Sherrie

[ September 19, 2002, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Sherrie ]

 

[stubbornboy]

jesus knew that judas is weak but he still put him as tresurer.their still diciples that are not in fire with the holy spirit so they are very exposed to evilk.you know well that handling money is difficult and alluring (the glitter of money).its planted.who else can do it.judas could be saved if he returned with the diciples and repent what he have done not killing him self

 

[Rev. G]

Sherrie:

I'm very glad that you have read John. Just to highlight a few things:

Jn. 13:18 - Jesus did not choose Judas Iscariot unto eternal life.

Jn. 17:12 - Judas Iscariot is the 'son of perdition' who 'is lost'.

Jn. 19:11 - Judas Iscariot was the one who "delivered" Jesus unto Pilate, and had the "greater sin."

The Apostle no doubt has Judas Iscariot in mind when he writes many years later in his first epistle, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." 1 Jn. 2:19

Satan did fulfill God's purpose and plan, but that does not excuse his guilt or mean that he is now in heaven.

Rev. G

 

[Rev. G]

Sherrie:

Just another note - Judas Iscariot is a lot like Pharaoh. They both did exactly what they desired, and they both did exactly what God purposed for them to do. Both were "vessels of destruction" who fulfilled God's plans (Romans 9:17-24; Acts 2:22-24).

Rev. G

 

[hrhema]

The Bible says that Satan entered Judas Iscariot. Very strong statement!

It is very clear that Judas knew that Jesus was the Messiah but what so many people forget is that the majority of the Jews did not believe the messiah was going to come as a humble carpenter from Nazareth but be a mighty warrior and King to defeat their enemies the Romans. Even though the prophecies prophesied both kinds of Messiahs they only wanted to believe in the one who would be a warrior and King.

Back in the fifties they said that an old manuscript was found that had once belonged to the Jewish Zealots and one of the names on the manuscript was Judas Bar Simon of Kerioth. So it is a possibility that Judas Iscariot was a Zealot along with Simon the Zealot that Jesus also chose.