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Was MLK Jr. a Christian?

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by JonC, Jan 16, 2023.

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  1. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps you could share some evidence that he did not hold those views, but rather more scripturally fundamental ones?
     
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Van very clearly did not read the documentation. It's not that he missed it, it's that he refused to read it.
     
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  3. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Sounds intriguing. How about a link to this, and the title of the source?
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think suggesting MLK lied about his beliefs to get a good grade is a bit off. MLK simply did not seem like that kind of person.

    MLK still leaned on equating Christ's divinity to a God-consciousness when he wrote:

    Isn't this like condemning Jesus because His unique God-consciousness and never-ceasing devotion to His will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion?


    Today we would call MLK's pulpit sermons "double-speak".

    You say MLK held orthodox views by affirming Christ' deity. BUT MLK already explained this was a "God consciousness " and not to be taken literal.

    You say MLK affirmed the empty grave. BUT MLK already explained that by empty grave and resurrection he meant Christ's philosophy, this "God consciousness", did not die with Jesus but lived on.

    I am not aware of MLK ever renouncing his stated beliefs, or him disagreeing with other liberal ministers from Crozer.

    I will say Proctor tried to help him reconcile Christianity with the liberal form taught at Crozer.

    Reading MLK's later papers (Boston University) it is clear he has some views that are unorthodox (a finite God, salvation by works- justification by faith, eternal life based on merit and usefulness to God). BUT there are also things I agree with (his atonement view, for example).

    So his beliefs could have changed. But there is no evidence I can find that they did change.
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    First provide evidence from his sermons and letters that he did. I already provided on quote that he did not.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Does anyone think this fellow is so stupid he does not know how to goggle? Neither do I...
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You asked for, and was provided, references.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the full paragraph from MLK Jr's letter from the Birmingham Jail, 1963:
    In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn’t this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn’t this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn’t this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God’s will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. . . .
    Here we see no support for Jesus not being God incarnate, but evidence MLK used "unique God consciousness" to refer to Christ's all in commitment to do the will of His father. I see no evidence MLK denied Jesus was God incarnate
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Post 48 responds to your snippet.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Does anyone deny people in college must give their dictatorial professors what they want to hear of suffer poor grades?
    The letter does not say MLK Jr is equating God consciousness with Christ's divinity. That must be read into the letter.
    To repeat, I do not say MLK held orthodox views, I say prove he did using something other than a paper summited for a grade.
    Lets go with the concept that MLK Jr is innocent until proved guilty, rather than guilty until proven innocent.
     
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, it doesn't.

    I presented what MLK wrote in college of his faith. Then I said he used the same terms in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail. Then I said that I have seen no evidence that MLK means something different after graduating from Crozer.

    Then I said that MLK may have changed his beliefs, and that Proctor mentored him in reconciling Christinity with Crozer's teachings, but that I have never read anything from MLK (to include letters to friends from Crozer and to Crozer itself) that recanted his previously stated belief.
     
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  12. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    If all you have is a snippet out of context and no link, no source, then your post is next to worthless for debate or argument.

    But your post did make me goggle at its utter arrogance bolstered by stupidity. Then “par for the course” came to mind. :Wink
     
  13. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Your quote leaves out some important information. The following article cites the sermon and critiques that passage, labeling it heresy:

    On March 29, 1959, Easter Sunday, King preached a sermon titled A Walk Through the Holy Land. This sermon calls into question King’s biblical fidelity and his commitment to essential Christian doctrines. In this sermon, King denied the importance of believing in the physical resurrection of Jesus stating that it doesn’t matter if one believes in the physical resurrection or a spiritual resurrection.

    Remembering Martin Luther King Jr.'s Heresy, Denial of Christ's Deity and Physical Resurrection
     
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  14. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    Here is a fuller quote (unedited from an article), including some seemingly damning elements.

    Whatever you believe about the resurrection this morning isn’t important. The form that you believe in, that isn’t the important thing. The fact that the revelation, resurrection is something that nobody can refute, that is the important thing. Some people felt, the disciples felt, that it was a physical resurrection, that the physical body got up. The paul came on the scene, who had been trained in greek philosophy, who knew a little about greek philosophy and had read a little, probably, of plato and others who believed in the immortality of the soul, and he tried to synthesize the greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul with the jewish hebrew doctrine of resurrection. And he talked, as you remember nad you read it, about a spiritual body. Whatever form, that isn’t important right now. The important thing is that that resurrection did occur. Important thing is that that grave was empty.

    Remembering Martin Luther King Jr.'s Heresy, Denial of Christ's Deity and Physical Resurrection
     
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  15. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    A better assessment is found in this article, already mentioned above.

    Remembering Martin Luther King Jr.’s Heresy, Denial of Christ’s Deity and Physical Resurrection
    ...
    While many Evangelicals argue that King only held these views in his early years and suggest that we have no reason to believe that he still held these views in his later years, the fact remains that there is no evidence whatsoever that he ever recanted these views. In fact, King was given over to the social gospel — a false gospel that places the emphasis on Christ’s work on social, temporal issues rather than the eternal. Further, his fruits of sexual immorality place further evidence on the lack of regeneration by the Holy Spirit. Should Evangelicals be lauding Martin Luther King as a “Christian hero”?​

     
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  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Again, have you refused to read the Letter from the Birmingham jail, which is a letter to white pastor's in which he openly denies the deity of Christ Jesus as being God incarnate?
    Second, no one is saying that God did not use MLK for a positive change in American society or that his view on race relationships was wrong.
    What has been provided is primary source documents from MLK himself where he denies the Trinity.
     
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the full paragraph from MLK Jr's letter from the Birmingham Jail, 1963:
    In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn’t this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn’t this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn’t this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God’s will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have consistently affirmed, it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber. . . .
    Here we see no support for Jesus not being God incarnate, but evidence MLK used "unique God consciousness" to refer to Christ's all in commitment to do the will of His father. I see no evidence MLK denied Jesus was God incarnate
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ask yourselves why these posters address my behavior and not the topic?
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Seriously? Nothing in what MLK Jr wrote says King denied the tomb was empty, thus a bodily resurrection.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Whatever you believe about the resurrection this morning isn’t important. The form that you believe in, that isn’t the important thing. The fact that the revelation, resurrection is something that nobody can refute, that is the important thing. Some people felt, the disciples felt, that it was a physical resurrection, that the physical body got up. The paul came on the scene, who had been trained in greek philosophy, who knew a little about greek philosophy and had read a little, probably, of plato and others who believed in the immortality of the soul, and he tried to synthesize the greek doctrine of the immortality of the soul with the jewish hebrew doctrine of resurrection. And he talked, as you remember nad you read it, about a spiritual body. Whatever form, that isn’t important right now. The important thing is that that resurrection did occur. Important thing is that that grave was empty.
     
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